Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Next up should be AS/VX and we'll see how it goes. Starting 6th year pay in a couple months (half way up the pay ladder) I think I'll be 25 to life here no matter what happens.
AA list is out
- Thread starter L-16B
- Start date
Next up should be AS/VX and we'll see how it goes. Starting 6th year pay in a couple months (half way up the pay ladder) I think I'll be 25 to life here no matter what happens.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You guys are all assuming that this list stands.
Didn't the 9th circuit hold that the issue of whether the Nic award should be used was not yet ripe for review because no list had actually been certified yet, and thus there was no injury and that the court refused to grant a interlocutory order on the issue?
Didn't the 9th circuit hold that the issue of whether the Nic award should be used was not yet ripe for review because no list had actually been certified yet, and thus there was no injury and that the court refused to grant a interlocutory order on the issue?
Cruise
Well-Known Member
What exactly are we thanking them for? That the precedent has been set for binding arbitration to be not really binding? Or is it the taking of the ball and going home when things don't work out as you hoped?
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Didn't all 3 committees agree this time around that this was it? Everyone including the company seems to think nothing will derail this
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
For making sure pilots do not get stapled or have their career destroyed simply due to a buyout/merger.
Put the emotion aside and stop going with the herd. Think logically about what I said in my first post. The junior United pilots (1999-2000 hires) have already benefitted greatly from the stance that the USAir pilots took after the Nicolau came out. The backlash to the incredibly unfair treatment (being stapled) of ALPA pilots with over 6 years active service and over 16 years seniority has made the arbitrators wake up. Read some of the wording in this new decision.
Typhoonpilot
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I don't know what the committees agreed to, and to be honest, I don't really care. Not because it doesn't matter, but because I'm not privy to it and I'm not entirely sure it affects the procedural framework for future legal action unless you're talking about whether that gives one of the groups grounds to bring a DFR suit.
Honest question: my understanding is that one of the side effects of the fight over the Nic was not being able to negotiate a new JCBA until a new SLI, and therefore somehow getting stuck with really crappy pay rates until the new AA came along.
If that's the case, how much money was lost of the pilot group?
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L-16B
Well-Known Member
Well regardless they better hurry up with the lawsuits because first combined bid is in a month I think. The east benefits the most if it isn't implemented
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
USAPA is an embarrassment to the profession.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Because of the USAPA temper tantrum, they have destroyed a lot of earnings for a lot of folks over the last 8 years.
Brah. Island time. Mahalo.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Emotion and herd? Yeah, that's it. I have no dog in the fight other than to watch the industry embarrassment (formerly) known as USAPA.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Zapphod Beblebrox
Inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
I believe this award will stand. The 9th circuit decision refused to give the West the Nicolau award and acknowledged that the Board of Arbitration could render a decision that did not incorporate the Nicolau award.
From the 9th Circuit decision:
We thus remand this case with instructions to the district court to enter an order enjoining USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration proceedings, including
any seniority-related discussions leading up to those proceedings, except to the
extent that USAPA advocates the Nicolau Award.12 See Bernard, 873 F.2d at
217–18 (affirming preliminary injunction compelling a union to negotiate a new
integrated seniority agreement in accordance with its own internal procedures).
This remedy adequately accounts for our uncertainty over whether the Nicolau
Award would have been implemented because it allows for the possibility that the
SLI arbitration panel might not ultimately use the Nicolau Award in its final
integration of the US Airways and American Airlines Pilots.
The 9th circuit also stated:
Because a good faith attempt to implement the Nicolau Award would have ultimately required a ratification vote by all the pilots, and we cannot know what the results of such a vote would have been, we can never be certain whether efforts to implement the Nicolau Award
through a collective bargaining agreement with US Airways would have
succeeded. See Addington I, 606 F.3d at 1179.
The board of Arbitration addressed this issue of ratification in their decision.
Based on the undisputed demographics of the East and West groups, it is also evident beyond cavil that negotiation, let alone US Air pilot ratification, of a joint collective agreement
between US Air and ALPA or USAPA that incorporated the Nicolau Award ISL – one of
the preconditions to the Nicolau Award becoming effective – was never a reasonable
possibility.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Please, don't be obtuse. USAPA was formed for one reason...and that was to abrogate the Nic Award. Whether you liked it or not, both parties agreed to arbitration. Then a bunch of children didn't get their way and they took their ball and went home. Hello USAPA...an embarrassment to the profession, not the stalwarts of the profession you're trying to sell.
Regardless, USAPA is dead...good riddance.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Were you still on property during usapa? They were absolutely without a doubt, drop dead horrible.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
No doubt both you are correct. But, in the interest of that whole "seeing the forest from the trees" saying, wouldn't you also say they killed off Nicolau and paid an 8 year price for it (and as ATN_Pilot so eloquently put it once, contracts are temporary, seniority is forever).
Ultimately, USAPA succeeded in their goal: keep Nic off property. And this new seniority award seems to be a whole lot more "fair" so in the end, USAPA "won" but with a 8 year penalty on contract/pay/QOL issues.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Do you get to take a trophy home when you cheated and still "won"?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I got no dog in the AA/US/AW list and AA/AW nic. But looking as a complete outsider into the situation, it does seem USAPA achieved what it's goal was (deny Nic, and try and get a better SLI somehow - just ended up being another merger in this case).
Cheated in the sense they didn't accept the Nic, but the tables can be turned and say that the list would only have been effective once there was a JCBA and they simply refused to negotiate that. They played within the established ground/frame work. SLI first, contract second, and then the SLI can be effective. That was ALPA's fault, they should have known better. It should be contract first and then a SLI - now it is.