AA-A321 Certified to Hawaii

Well played.... I guess i should have been more specific....So say you're an A321 pilot for AA and all of a sudden a trip to Honolulu shows up on your schedule yet never has before. Does that not raise a question....Is the plane certified for any carrier to make that flight? @Derg
 
I saw another story that said American is flying the 321 to Hawaii, but the ones they're using are equipped for overwater operations (obviously). The one that was sent was not equipped. Halfway through they realized but carried on. Return flight cancelled, aircraft ferried back to the mainland.

Dispatch/aircraft scheduling dropped the ball but I feel like there should be some checks done by the cockpit and cabin crew that would have caught it if they were done.


ETA: Looks like the 321 is all AA is running on that route anymore: http://flightaware.com/live/findflight/KLAX/PHNL
 
I saw another story that said American is flying the 321 to Hawaii, but the ones they're using are equipped for overwater operations (obviously). The one that was sent was not equipped. Halfway through they realized but carried on. Return flight cancelled, aircraft ferried back to the mainland.

Dispatch/aircraft scheduling dropped the ball but I feel like there should be some checks done by the cockpit and cabin crew that would have caught it if they were done.

Well that answers that I suppose.....It just didn't seem right....The story didn't make sense.
 
Well that answers that I suppose.....It just didn't seem right....The story didn't make sense.
Here's what I read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...he-wrong-plane-from-l-a-to-hawaii-last-month/

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imrs.php

(Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images)

In late August, American Airlines accidentally flew the wrong plane from Los Angeles to Hawaii, a mix-up that violated Federal Aviation Administration regulations.

The mistake, first reported by aviation blogger Brian Sumers, occurred on Aug. 31 — just days after the airline began flying Airbus A321 planes on the L.A. to Hawaii route (other planes in American Airlines’ fleet have long flown this route).

A spokesman for the airline confirmed to The Washington Post that a version of the A321 plane that was not certified to make long flights over water — as on the route between Los Angeles and Hawaii — was accidentally flown that day.

The mistake was caught midway through the flight, Sumers reported, but a decision was made to continue to Hawaii. The airline canceled the return flight and the empty plane was flown back to Los Angeles.

“Immediately when we realize what happened, we notified the FAA and we are working and fully cooperating with them,” spokesman Casey Norton said. “We also have an ongoing, thorough review of our policies and procedures.”

[United’s CEO, ousted under a cloud, leaves with lifetime free flights and parking]

Planes that fly routes with no suitable landing areas are required to have a certification called ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) which is primarily an administrative requirement, but it also calls for the planes to be equipped with extra oxygen and a fire suppression cannister.

The A321 planes can be either ETOPS certified or non-ETOPS certified. Both planes have the same number of life vests, rafts, and engine range, Norton said.

[Air traveler at the center of the great seat-reclining debate: ‘I’m pretty ashamed’]

According to Sumers, airlines don’t certify all planes, just the ones that are used to fly the long-range routes over water:

Obtaining ETOPs certification is not difficult but it is a complicated process, and so there’s no reason to certify aircraft that won’t fly on long routes over water. As a result, American has two types of A321s in its standard first class and coach configuration — the A321H, which can fly to Hawaii, and the A321S, which cannot.

Yet flying a non-ETOPS certified plane, as American did on Aug. 31, is a big mistake and it is extremely rare, Norton acknowledged.

Sumers, who writes about aviation issues, said that he first learned about the mistake from pilots chatting online anonymously.


“It’s really rare,” Sumers said. “Something like this, when you talk to airline people, they say ‘How does this happen? This can’t happen.'”

American Airlines would not say what caused the mistake. But Norton said that immediately after it occurred, the airline upgraded the software on the plane so that “the correct aircraft is identified to fly the correct route.”
 
They've been sending (etops) 321s out here for a while now. I *think* all of the 321s that American has are EOW setups which means the cabin equipment would be the same. However, for the flight crew, pushing back without an ETOPS sign off should be pretty difficult to do, although apparently it isn't.
 
Well played.... I guess i should have been more specific....So say you're an A321 pilot for AA and all of a sudden a trip to Honolulu shows up on your schedule yet never has before. Does that not raise a question....Is the plane certified for any carrier to make that flight? @Derg

I'm not sure if they do "Theater* Qualifications" but one simply just doesn't decide to fly to Hawaii. It's got to be an ETOPS jet, you need some overwater training and well, I'm not even sure if Hawaii needs a TOE or not.

But if you're looking at the logbook and don't see "ETOPS" or you're missing an "ETOPS PDC" signoff in the logbook and a note about the aircraft being ETOPS certified on the flight plan (I have no idea what data 'Merkin has on it's flight plan) but I'd be asking questions and setting parking brakes with catlike quickness if it was me.

But I had the "luxury" of being a fleet with ETOPS and non-ETOPS 75's and 76's so I got used to looking for that stuff with regularity.




*Theatre if you're @SurferLucas
 
Probably more for the ground crew. There's different stuff that happens.

Like there are tires and there are ETOPS tires.
 
I'm not sure if they do "Theater* Qualifications" but one simply just doesn't decide to fly to Hawaii. It's got to be an ETOPS jet, you need some overwater training and well, I'm not even sure if Hawaii needs a TOE or not.

But if you're looking at the logbook and don't see "ETOPS" or you're missing an "ETOPS PDC" signoff in the logbook and a note about the aircraft being ETOPS certified on the flight plan (I have no idea what data 'Merkin has on it's flight plan) but I'd be asking questions and setting parking brakes with catlike quickness if it was me.

But I had the "luxury" of being a fleet with ETOPS and non-ETOPS 75's and 76's so I got used to looking for that stuff with regularity.




*Theatre if you're @SurferLucas

Don't forget the big ass red ETOPS sticker on the front cover of the logbook. Very hard to miss that if you actually pick up the logbook to check MCOs. Who trusts dispatch and MCC to get those right without reconciling the paperwork with the book?
 
Latest I heard was that the tail number they took wasn't actually the tail that was listed on the release.
 
Better than getting a Wag in your Face Finger Talk about airmanship

Understanding is a Venn-Diagram.

Both sides were actually correct but some of you guys thought your perspective was the universal, unshakeable fact.

You need procedures. You need airmanship. They work in concert.

Checklists can't make up for crappy airmanship.

Superior airmanship still has enough human factors to make checklists necessary.
 
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