A320 max braking procedure

Derg said:
Autobrakes are a "deceleration rate" so if you add more reverser, the brakes reduce pressure and you'll stop in "X" amount of distance.

If you add no reverser, the brakes will increase pressure and you will still then stop in "X" amount of distance.

Reserve idle will increase your brake temp, somewhat. Brakes will eventually cool, no biggie. They're engineered to get hot anyway.
Heavy reserve will decrease your brake temp, somewhat. Makes a lot of noise, increases your change of FOD ingestion and, welp, makes you feel more manly on the internet.

Carbon-fiber brakes, some at least, have heating "problems". Not necessarily problems per se, but they like to heat up. Which is good because a single firm application of brakes increases the brake life, whereas a bunch of smaller incremental "punches" at it actually decrease brake life.

My airline doesn't teach "save the brakes" and I don't even know what that means.

*Autobrakes LO MED and MAX really isn't braking deceleration, it's really more of the pause between initial application and full autobraking. I'm not sure what the manufacturer says, but if you use MAX on landing, FOQA reporting is going to win you a nice trip to the chief pilots office's "Big Brown Desk" to explain yourself and there's nothing funnier than attempting to use the fabled Get Out of Jail FREE card of "Captains authority!" when it's for no good reason, especially simply attempting to make an early turnoff.


* JC's very own FiFi school teacher @PeanuckleCRJ may have some figures he could share.
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Your FOQA guys turn you in like that? What happened to the customary phone call?

Everything else is spot on to what my company teaches.
 
US taught us to heat up the brakes on Fifi. Carbon fiber brakes wear better when they're hot. We were told to apply the brakes as soon as practicable after touchdown and use a smooth, steady application. There were only certain times that Autobrakes were mandatory (and they all escape me at the moment). Most guys rarely used them as MED was too much and LO was not enough (the autobrakes on the Boeing are far superior). We were also told not to turn the fans on until the brakes were approaching 500 and don't do it until just before turning into the gate. We also used normal reverse.
 
Derg said:
Autobrakes are a "deceleration rate" so if you add more reverser, the brakes reduce pressure and you'll stop in "X" amount of distance.

If you add no reverser, the brakes will increase pressure and you will still then stop in "X" amount of distance.

Reserve idle will increase your brake temp, somewhat. Brakes will eventually cool, no biggie. They're engineered to get hot anyway.
Heavy reserve will decrease your brake temp, somewhat. Makes a lot of noise, increases your change of FOD ingestion and, welp, makes you feel more manly on the internet.

Carbon-fiber brakes, some at least, have heating "problems". Not necessarily problems per se, but they like to heat up. Which is good because a single firm application of brakes increases the brake life, whereas a bunch of smaller incremental "punches" at it actually decrease brake life.

My airline doesn't teach "save the brakes" and I don't even know what that means.

*Autobrakes LO MED and MAX really isn't braking deceleration, it's really more of the pause between initial application and full autobraking. I'm not sure what the manufacturer says, but if you use MAX on landing, FOQA reporting is going to win you a nice trip to the chief pilots office's "Big Brown Desk" to explain yourself and there's nothing funnier than attempting to use the fabled Get Out of Jail FREE card of "Captains authority!" when it's for no good reason, especially simply attempting to make an early turnoff.


* JC's very own FiFi school teacher @PeanuckleCRJ may have some figures he could share.
Click to expand...


Whats reserve idle and reserve max?

Is this a new type of schedule?

Pay? QoL?
 
Derg said:
Brakes will eventually cool, no biggie. They're engineered to get hot anyway.... My airline doesn't teach "save the brakes" and I don't even know what that means.
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Don't recall ever hearing that at our schoolhouse either. Some pilots, it seems, do have that odd thought in their head.
 
Cal Goat said:
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Don't recall ever hearing that at our schoolhouse either. Some pilots, it seems, do have that odd thought in their head.
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Fly a very similar airplane with steel brakes, then transition to carbon brakes.
Same pedals, very different operating ideology.
 
Polar742 said:
Fly a very similar airplane with steel brakes, then transition to carbon brakes.
Same pedals, very different operating ideology.
Click to expand...

I'm operating from the premise that brakes are designed to be safely used within a very reasonable margin of their total limits on a regular basis. Yes, they will get hot. Yes, pads will be replaced routinely.

We operate our regional jet out of some fairly short runways, and even with heavy braking application on landing, I've rarely ever seen the temps go into the caution range. Like maybe one wheel, once, for a couple of minutes.

The brakes are designed (and required by certification, no?) to stop these airplanes at max gross weight right before V1. That's a massive amount of energy. Now I'm not suggesting that brakes be applied right to the threshold of the antiskid on every landing. I'm just saying that I've flown with guys over the years that are bizarrely apprehensive about using brakes beyond a light touch. I don't get it.
 
amorris311 said:
Your FOQA guys turn you in like that? What happened to the customary phone call?
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I have no idea, but when there's evidentiary data and you've intentionally chosen to stray from procedure for no good reason, I'd expect a beat-down.
 
Cal Goat said:
tumblr_lpho1uGYwR1qzjix8.gif


Don't recall ever hearing that at our schoolhouse either. Some pilots, it seems, do have that odd thought in their head.
Click to expand...

Herk-a-LEEZ, Herk-a-leez!

I figure we all have our "truisms".

Like on the 767ER we'd always go idle reverse on landing because of noise abatement and some of the guidance with western European airports more or less forbade the use of max reverse unless hilarity was about to ensue.

But on the 330, some people would jam those things so deep in reverse, it be cryin'.
 
When it comes to applying brakes my priorities are in this order.

1. Safety
2. Passenger comfort

I seriously think some captains think I am an idiot because I will not slam on the brakes to make a taxiway that is 100-200 feet earlier than my planned taxiway. I can't count how many times they say "my bottoms" and cause all the passengers to face-plant the seat in front of them just to get to the gate 30 seconds faster. The FA must find it fun to watch though.
 
Cal Goat said:
Landing at SNA a few weeks ago, I briefed the captain that I would not be finessing the landing and would get on the brakes early and heavy as it is a short runway. He didn't add any commentary to the briefing so I landed exactly how I said I would and got on the brakes. Landing in the touchdown zone and then slowing enough to make the second to last exit, he said "Whoa, save the brakes!" To which I replied, "Your airplane"

I really haven't seen a compelling argument in aviation for "saving the brakes". Hey, I want to be smooth and give everyone a nice ride. But sometimes you need to use the brakes and it's okay to use them within their operating envelope. Teaching pilots to be afraid of "wasting" or "being hard on" brakes is beyond my scope of understanding.

It's a part that will be replaced fairly frequently. In transport aircraft we have very advanced materials, we check the indicators on every flight, and we have systems that monitor the brake temps. To pretend that these are delicate parts that might not work right if you use them too much seems like a lack of technical understanding. And I think that goes back to primary flight training.
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No one here is saying that you shouldn't use the brakes when you need to. My comment was more directed at saving all the effort of not having to put your arm up to hold yourself up from smashing into the seat in front of you because the PF has 12000 feet of runway, but insists on only using 4500ft of it, just because. I've been lucky enough to have a captain let me have the landing at Key West. That's a max effort, put it on and get it stopped runway. But somewhere like LAX, our ATL, what's the point. Save it for somewhere else.

I'm trying to articulate what I mean by "save it" but I don't think I'm doing a very good job.
 
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mshunter said:
No one here is saying that you shouldn't use the brakes when you need to. My comment was more directed at saving all the effort of not having to put your arm up to hold yourself up from smashing into the seat in front of you because the PF has 12000 feet of runway, but insists on only using 4500ft of it, just because. I've been lucky enough to have a captain let me have the landing at Key West. That's a max effort, put it on and get it stopped runway. But somewhere like LAX, our ATL, what's the point.
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"Buzzsaw 5477, turn right at Hotel Four, traffic is a (foreign airplane) on a three mile final."
-sound of full reverse-

(This can be accomplished without a face-plant.)
 
Landing in LAS with higher temps I'll typically use no brakes and just do max rev until 80 kts and then go to idle reverse and come on the brakes. Usually by then the CA is about to take over so I don't touch the brakes.

And redeye landings I'll do full reverse to serve as my version of an alarm clock wake-up for the passengers. ;)
 
Stone Cold said:
If only I could figure out how to impart that on the Russian I fly with...there are too many TMAAT stories for interviews or over beers, though.
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I think the biggest reason I was offered a job at my current company, is because of the TMAAT stories from the horrible captains I have flown with, 1 in particular.
 
My pet peeve is when your flying partner applies the brakes moderately, then spots his exit point, realizes he is using too much braking, backs way off on the brakes, then reapplies them approaching the turnoff. Land, apply the brakes lightly, pick out your turnoff, smoothly add braking as necessary.
 
Saw a DC-10 that did the same thing. Didn't know that such a heavy bird could have that kind of short field performance........
 
Cal Goat said:
I'm operating from the premise that brakes are designed to be safely used within a very reasonable margin of their total limits on a regular basis. Yes, they will get hot. Yes, pads will be replaced routinely.

We operate our regional jet out of some fairly short runways, and even with heavy braking application on landing, I've rarely ever seen the temps go into the caution range. Like maybe one wheel, once, for a couple of minutes.

The brakes are designed (and required by certification, no?) to stop these airplanes at max gross weight right before V1. That's a massive amount of energy. Now I'm not suggesting that brakes be applied right to the threshold of the antiskid on every landing. I'm just saying that I've flown with guys over the years that are bizarrely apprehensive about using brakes beyond a light touch. I don't get it.
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It's like Flaps 45 on the Brasilia (and FULL on the BroBus). Embraer put it there that you would use it; therefore, when the situation demands its use, use it.

"Are you really landing 45?"
"Uhm. Yeah?"

Otherwise, they wouldn't have put the brakes on the airplane, being adherents to the Airplane Rule of Design and all.
 
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