A Summer Job or at least it's Experience
- Thread starter flyhi5
- Start date
Buzo
Well-Known Member
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
It is going pretty good, I am in Seattle for the week right now, I am going to start flight training sometime after the 15th. I posted some pictures from the trip up in another forum. Take a look at those I am going to try posting some more tonight or tomorrow.
It is going pretty good, I am in Seattle for the week right now, I am going to start flight training sometime after the 15th. I posted some pictures from the trip up in another forum. Take a look at those I am going to try posting some more tonight or tomorrow.
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
the market around here is okay for CFI work. I'm building plenty of SEL time.... but like it's been said before MULTI stuff is the gold. NOBODY out here is training in twins... so at this rate I might be here another 3 or 4 years just trying to get someif any multi time.
here's something I just thought of too.... what's wrong in me paying for some twin/turbine time for cheaper and gaining valuable experience with CRM, 135 experience, and a decent airplane.... i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people... if somebody has their dreams set on something, there's nothing wrong with doing what they have to do to get where they want in their career. If I can't find multi-engine work around where I am now...but I have goals that include landing myself a job when i get out of school, then i need to do what ever is necessery to advance my career.
let's put it this way.... even in this low time for the airlines... i still have a positive outlook on it...and want to do whatever it takes to get me where i need to be so that one day i can fly for them.
the market around here is okay for CFI work. I'm building plenty of SEL time.... but like it's been said before MULTI stuff is the gold. NOBODY out here is training in twins... so at this rate I might be here another 3 or 4 years just trying to get someif any multi time.
here's something I just thought of too.... what's wrong in me paying for some twin/turbine time for cheaper and gaining valuable experience with CRM, 135 experience, and a decent airplane.... i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people... if somebody has their dreams set on something, there's nothing wrong with doing what they have to do to get where they want in their career. If I can't find multi-engine work around where I am now...but I have goals that include landing myself a job when i get out of school, then i need to do what ever is necessery to advance my career.
let's put it this way.... even in this low time for the airlines... i still have a positive outlook on it...and want to do whatever it takes to get me where i need to be so that one day i can fly for them.
sbav8r
New Member
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
[ QUOTE ]
what's wrong in me paying for some twin/turbine time for cheaper and gaining valuable experience with CRM, 135 experience, and a decent airplane.... i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a big difference in buying PIC time renting an aircraft for training than buying SIC time with a company that is making money on you as a crew member. Interviewers will see it this way too. PIC time is much more valuable than SIC. It's your choice, do what you will.
[ QUOTE ]
what's wrong in me paying for some twin/turbine time for cheaper and gaining valuable experience with CRM, 135 experience, and a decent airplane.... i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a big difference in buying PIC time renting an aircraft for training than buying SIC time with a company that is making money on you as a crew member. Interviewers will see it this way too. PIC time is much more valuable than SIC. It's your choice, do what you will.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
[ QUOTE ]
i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you could. And, if you did do that you wouldn't be taking away a possible job from someone else. That SIC position is/could be a paying job - but instead Key Lime is getting you to do work for them for free ... hell better than free you're paying them to work for them.
Would you pay McDonalds, or WalMart, or Sears to work for them? So why would you do it for Key Lime?
It's programs like these that devalue entry level flying jobs to the point no one can live off them. We have a very specialized skill and it's absolutely ridiculous that entry level positions are so poorly paid. There is a gigantic difference between paying your dues and being exploited.
Programs like these are exploitation plain and simple.
How much actual stick time do you think you'll get? Do they provide a guarantee for any number of PF time? Chances are, unless you have it in writing, you'll most likey just be sitting in the right seat trying to keep the "Captain" awake and grabbing a cup of coffee now and then.
Not trying to be an a$$ here but if you're paying thousands of dollars you ought to know exactly what kind of time, and how much, it is your buying.
Key Lime is a business first and foremost. I seriously doubt they, or their insurance, are going to let participants in their SIC program go flying approaches down to mins - and the FARs are going to prohibit you from even touching the yoke when they are on a 135 leg. So at best you have a 50% shot (on any given trip) of even being allowed to touch the yoke.
You'd be far better off I think renting a seneca, getting half the time they promise you and at least that way all your time would be PIC. In most employers eyes a twin is a twin is a twin.
[ QUOTE ]
i could go out and buy 100 hours of block time in some seneca or something... i'd get not even close to the experience that i will be getting....and I'll be paying more to do it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you could. And, if you did do that you wouldn't be taking away a possible job from someone else. That SIC position is/could be a paying job - but instead Key Lime is getting you to do work for them for free ... hell better than free you're paying them to work for them.
Would you pay McDonalds, or WalMart, or Sears to work for them? So why would you do it for Key Lime?
It's programs like these that devalue entry level flying jobs to the point no one can live off them. We have a very specialized skill and it's absolutely ridiculous that entry level positions are so poorly paid. There is a gigantic difference between paying your dues and being exploited.
Programs like these are exploitation plain and simple.
How much actual stick time do you think you'll get? Do they provide a guarantee for any number of PF time? Chances are, unless you have it in writing, you'll most likey just be sitting in the right seat trying to keep the "Captain" awake and grabbing a cup of coffee now and then.
Not trying to be an a$$ here but if you're paying thousands of dollars you ought to know exactly what kind of time, and how much, it is your buying.
Key Lime is a business first and foremost. I seriously doubt they, or their insurance, are going to let participants in their SIC program go flying approaches down to mins - and the FARs are going to prohibit you from even touching the yoke when they are on a 135 leg. So at best you have a 50% shot (on any given trip) of even being allowed to touch the yoke.
You'd be far better off I think renting a seneca, getting half the time they promise you and at least that way all your time would be PIC. In most employers eyes a twin is a twin is a twin.
Hootie
Old Skool
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
[ QUOTE ]
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people... if somebody has their dreams set on something, there's nothing wrong with doing what they have to do to get where they want in their career. If I can't find multi-engine work around where I am now...but I have goals that include landing myself a job when i get out of school, then i need to do what ever is necessery to advance my career.
[/ QUOTE ]
Man with that attitude, I'm surprised you don't just write 200 multi hours in your logbook. Do whatever it takes within ethical boundaries. If any employer finds out what you did you will be laughed out of their office. And the line boy might just beat you down as your walking your sorry @ss back to your car. Your conscience is obviously bothering you about it or else you wouldn't have posted the question hoping for some pats on the back.
[ QUOTE ]
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people... if somebody has their dreams set on something, there's nothing wrong with doing what they have to do to get where they want in their career. If I can't find multi-engine work around where I am now...but I have goals that include landing myself a job when i get out of school, then i need to do what ever is necessery to advance my career.
[/ QUOTE ]
Man with that attitude, I'm surprised you don't just write 200 multi hours in your logbook. Do whatever it takes within ethical boundaries. If any employer finds out what you did you will be laughed out of their office. And the line boy might just beat you down as your walking your sorry @ss back to your car. Your conscience is obviously bothering you about it or else you wouldn't have posted the question hoping for some pats on the back.
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
[ QUOTE ]
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people....
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wide awake and I have experience with the last aviation downturn back in the early 1990s.
You have to realize that the above statement is part of the marketing ploy for PFT outfits.
In this market, 250 hours of turbine time or jet time with low total time is going to do nothing for you except empty your pocketbook,
If someone can give me a specific (and verifiable) example of anyone post 9/11 that has benefitted from a PFT program and landed a full time wage paying job, I will retract my statement publically.
A PFT program is more or less like jaunting off to the Bahamas for a 13 month medical degree. Sure you're a "doctor" on the Bahamian registry but no one in their right mind is going to rely on a Bahamian medical degree to hire you to work at Johns-Hopkin.
PFT is the same way. As long as your check clears, you're going to get to fly the aircraft -- or at least sit in the cockpit and make sure the captain doesn't fall asleep. Every airline from Mesa all the way up to American knows the deal about pay-for-training.
Airlines want to see that someone thought you were a good candidate during the interview, you passed their ground school, satisfied the check airmen and the FAA, survived IOE and the line for a few years and paid you for your services.
If you think I'm full of crap (you wouldn't be the first so you won't hurt my feelings), I'd be more than happy to seek out the professional opinion of a pilot recruiter if you'll give me about two weeks on it. One of my former advertisers was a pilot recruiter for Delta and my captain this month is married to a former pilot recruiter at American.
I'd put a little more faith in their testimony rather than a glossy 8x10 ad in Flying Magazine.
[ QUOTE ]
sure PFT isn't popular but i still say...wake up and look at the industry people....
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wide awake and I have experience with the last aviation downturn back in the early 1990s.
You have to realize that the above statement is part of the marketing ploy for PFT outfits.
In this market, 250 hours of turbine time or jet time with low total time is going to do nothing for you except empty your pocketbook,
If someone can give me a specific (and verifiable) example of anyone post 9/11 that has benefitted from a PFT program and landed a full time wage paying job, I will retract my statement publically.
A PFT program is more or less like jaunting off to the Bahamas for a 13 month medical degree. Sure you're a "doctor" on the Bahamian registry but no one in their right mind is going to rely on a Bahamian medical degree to hire you to work at Johns-Hopkin.
PFT is the same way. As long as your check clears, you're going to get to fly the aircraft -- or at least sit in the cockpit and make sure the captain doesn't fall asleep. Every airline from Mesa all the way up to American knows the deal about pay-for-training.
Airlines want to see that someone thought you were a good candidate during the interview, you passed their ground school, satisfied the check airmen and the FAA, survived IOE and the line for a few years and paid you for your services.
If you think I'm full of crap (you wouldn't be the first so you won't hurt my feelings), I'd be more than happy to seek out the professional opinion of a pilot recruiter if you'll give me about two weeks on it. One of my former advertisers was a pilot recruiter for Delta and my captain this month is married to a former pilot recruiter at American.
I'd put a little more faith in their testimony rather than a glossy 8x10 ad in Flying Magazine.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Re: A Summer Job or at least it\'s Experience
Think of PFT this way:
You walk into your interview. There's one opening. There you are and your competition is another pilot who was paid as a flight instructor.
Both of you have about the same amount of hours. AND his father ALSO works for the airlines.. just as yours does.... so, all things are equal except:
It comes time to review the logbooks:
(1) Yours has 1500 TT/ 250 Multi... 1250 of which you PAID for.
(2) His has 1500 TT/ 250 Multi... 1200 of which he WAS PAID for.
Which one shows that a company trusted the pilot enough to hire them to fly their equipment?
Who do you think they'll hire?
Think of PFT this way:
You walk into your interview. There's one opening. There you are and your competition is another pilot who was paid as a flight instructor.
Both of you have about the same amount of hours. AND his father ALSO works for the airlines.. just as yours does.... so, all things are equal except:
It comes time to review the logbooks:
(1) Yours has 1500 TT/ 250 Multi... 1250 of which you PAID for.
(2) His has 1500 TT/ 250 Multi... 1200 of which he WAS PAID for.
Which one shows that a company trusted the pilot enough to hire them to fly their equipment?
Who do you think they'll hire?
