A student that lies...

chrisreedrules

chrisreedrules

Master Blaster
Anyone else have these? I can't stand them. I know we are supposed to be accepting of almost anyone as a student. But lying to my face is one way to aggravate me fast. This kid is 18 years old, has had everything handed to him in his life (his parents words not mine), and never studies. I think he is upset in general lately because he has hit this "wall" I like to call aviation where things aren't just handed to you. You have to work hard to achieve your goals. Scenario:

My student sends me a text message at Noon, asking what time he should show up for our ground... I reply that our ground is at 2:00PM and we have a flight right after. 2:00PM rolls around and he is nowhere to be found. I sit there until 2:45PM, at which time I figure he just isn't going to show. Which upsets me because from our texts earlier in the day, he gave me the impression he would be here at 2:00PM. Maintenance asks me to run-up one of our aircraft that hasn't flown in a couple weeks (we do this from time to time if it is an aircraft that doesn't fly often just to keep the engine up and running well) which I do for about 15 minutes. I walk back into our lobby and there he is, just sitting there. I call the student back into my office and the conversation goes a little something like this:

ME: "Hey man, hows everything going today"?

STUDENT: "Pretty good man, ate a good lunch and I'm really excited to go fly today".

ME: "Well thats unfortunate because you gave me the impression that you were going to be here at 2:00PM for ground... And now we aren't going to have time to go fly".

STUDENT: "I have been here since 1:50PM"!

ME: (And I'm naturally a sarcastic person, I can't help myself in situations like this) "Well someone call Dr. Xavier because we must have an X-Men here... I've been sitting in the lobby literally the whole time, and unless you walked through the wall there is no way you have been here since 1:50PM".

STUDENT: Starts stuttering and stammering

ME: "I don't care about your excuse, you already lied to me... Bottom line, my time is money. If you aren't going to be able to make it on time, no sweat. I know everyone is human and things come up some time. BUT you shouldn't give me the impression that you are going to show up on time and then come in a hour late and act like nothing is wrong. This is my job, its how I pay my bills... Don't waste my time, and please don't lie to me".

...From this point I got on with our ground, but I could tell he was a little shaken up for whatever reason. Maybe mommy and daddy never got serious with him. I don't know. But our new instructor who has been sitting in on our ground lessons to try and gleam a few things here and there told me afterwards that I was probably a little too harsh. I don't think I was. What say you? How do you deal with students who will bold faced lie to your face?
 
I wouldn't have been so aggressive, but that's me. He's a client, not a child. I'd bill him for the full amount of the booked time and send him on his way. If he doesn't learn to show up on time, then I'd gladly keep billing him for nothing until he does.
 
Id probably have just gone on with the lesson, then talked to him about it after. Id sure hate to fly with an 18 year old who just had his ass handed to him. I dont think he would have been focused on flying and would constantly be wondering if you hate him. Thats just my opinion.
 
If they lie to me, I just let them lie. I am paid to teach them; not be mommy and daddy. If it (being late) continues then I charge them for the time they were scheduled, if they show up or not. If they continue to lie then, I tell them (+monny and daddy) I am no longer willing to teach him and I will find someone else if they would like.
 
Just do what my CFI did. He knew I hated heights and was absolutely mortified of spins.

Cardinal heading and start climbing...
 
Yea... After reading it spelled out like that, I feel maybe I was a little too aggressive with the situation. I just don't have much patience for this behavior. Part of it was because when I was his age I was already on my own paying my own bills and I just can't understand the total lack of accountability/responsibility. Next time, I'll try and control my temper a little better and just keep it cool I guess. Its just frustrating sometimes.
 
ME: (And I'm naturally a sarcastic person, I can't help myself in situations like this) "Well someone call Dr. Xavier because we must have an X-Men here... I've been sitting in the lobby literally the whole time, and unless you walked through the wall there is no way you have been here since 1:50PM".
ME: "I don't care about your excuse, you already lied to me... Bottom line, my time is money. If you aren't going to be able to make it on time, no sweat. I know everyone is human and things come up some time. BUT you shouldn't give me the impression that you are going to show up on time and then come in a hour late and act like nothing is wrong. This is my job, its how I pay my bills... Don't waste my time, and please don't lie to me"... But our new instructor who has been sitting in on our ground lessons to try and gleam a few things here and there told me afterwards that I was probably a little too harsh. I don't think I was. What say you? How do you deal with students who will bold faced lie to your face?
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To be honest ... I think it was a bit too harsh. I mean, I understand not liking that someone lied to your face. I really do get that, and it would make me seriously question the individual's fitness to be a pilot*... but it's not the military, and he's your customer. In my opinion, it's ok to be completely direct with him, and tell him that if he keeps it up he'll need to find another instructor... but your response comes off to me as crossing the line into being outright "rude".

I've always found that for my purposes, being polite has almost always served me better. The more ornery I feel, the more polite I get. That may be cultural, though.

-Fox
 
dasleben said:
I'd bill him for the full amount of the booked time and send him on his way. If he doesn't learn to show up on time, then I'd gladly keep billing him for nothing until he does.
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It might also help to have the flight school post a notice (or put something in a rental/training agreement) saying something like "No shows (or late cancellations) will be charged for 2 hours of ground instruction", so you have something "official" in writing if a student complains about it.
 
I had my student sign a 3 strikes and you're out policy on ay one. Show up late three times (without prior notice, or if it becomes habit) and you get billed starting when the lesson was supposed to have started. I started to like the young students who always came late because I got paid for not doing anything.
 
Keeping you waiting is messed up, I'd be pissed too. I don't think you were too hard on him. The student calls the shots though, he should have just told you he just wanted to fly that day and skipped ground. It wouldn't be a productive lesson but he is paying you.
 
I had a prob with one a while ago.. I'm naturally as sarcastic as u.. The Xmen thing is very funny, that being said remember ur a professional don't let them see u get angry just bust out the whole mom and pop thing "I'm not mad I'm more disappointed in u" we all know that stings.. And how do points get across best? Charge him the hour u sat there.. Like u said ur time is money.. Keep up the good work and when u get a student who is awesome u will enjoy the hell out of it
 
Not too harsh at all. I would chew his ass a bit, charge 'em for my time, and let him know if it becomes a pattern he'll need to find a new instructor.

Respect is a 2 way street. If he doesn't respect your time and livelihood, he needs a new hobby (or CFI).

After 3 or 4 cfis and thousands of dollars and the kid hasn't soloed, mom and dad generally start getting a little ticked off and may help light a fire....
 
I think that we are too ready to just let it roll and not put consequences for actions. If you lie to me that's even worse...he should have been called out for lying about it. AND you charge him for the time you were there waiting...it's not like you could have left to do something YOU wanted to do. If he doesn't like it, let him find someone else to teach him. Maybe he'll learn his lesson.
 
It might have been harsh if it was a first offense. I give my students a fair warning after the first time being late. I've charged students and canceled flights because they showed up late and/or unprepared when I had another student scheduled right after them, and I don't have all day to wait on that one student. A lot of times I feel too lenient on my students though, but I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but warn them if it becomes a pattern that it won't continue like that. I'm not sure what it's like outside of a university environment though. Where I work their flight block is a class for university, and if they don't show up prepared, the student has consequences.

Who knows that one time might pan out for the better for the both of you. I guess time will tell.
 
I made it very clear up front that I charge for no-shows. If it was somebody that was always on time I would overlook a one time mistake. I had a guy that would frequently book 7am flights and never show. I billed him and told him to find another CFI.
 
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