A start in Alaska

[Advicedog]

There are some threads like this, and I've even already messaged some of you regarding it after reading the others, but I figured I'd also start a thread to gather more info from those of you who I have not yet personally messaged, and since everyone's circumstances are a little different, some advice more specific to my circumstances is always welcome.

My situation:
I want to fly in Alaska, namely in the bush, although to be honest I don't care TOO much about exactly what I do to start, though Alaska is my goal given that it offers the most bush flying opportunity. I just like flying. I can work my way to flying Super Cubs for lodges or Beavers (with or without floats) from less cool positions if that's what it takes. Doesn't really bother me. Heck, I'll even do SIC stuff. I just want to know what's going to give me the surest path to success in meeting my goals (which right now are more along the lines of bush flying than more "regulated" flying).

My Quals:

• Have:
  • 120hrs TT and complex endorsement
• Working on:
  • Instrument Rating
  • High performance endorsement
• Plan on getting afterwards
  • Taildragger endorsement (likely quite soon)
  • MEL
  • Seaplane
  • CSEL/CMEL

My Options:

1. Get all of the above mentioned ratings (or skip seaplane until once I'm up there) and then go knocking on doors in Alaska
   1. About 250TT IRA, MEL, CSEL/CMEL would be my quals
   2. Pros: Have all the quals I need for SOMETHING once I get there. I'm not averse to SIC stuff. Can build to Part 135 mins (500TT, etc.) up there.
   3. Cons: Less job opportunity compared to having part 135 mins. Showing up without knowing anyone.
2. Get all of the above mentioned ratings (or skip seaplane until once I'm up there), find work elsewhere in the US to hit Part 135 Mins (500TT, etc.), and THEN go to Alaska
   1. Pros: Part 135 mins opens up far more doors by the time I show up. More opportunity for low time PIC jobs in the lower 48 (banner towing, survey piloting, etc.) Larger set of options from which to choose in general until I hit the Part 135 mins that'll really get me competitive up there.
   2. Cons: Showing up without knowing anyone
3. Go up there now, work as a ramp rat, and get those ratings and endorsements up there
   1. Pros: Will have same quals as listed above. Will have built rapport with people, especially those I work for/with. High likelihood of nullifying total time deficits I have in comparison to other applicants.
   2. Cons: Will likely take considerably longer to get my ratings unless I buy classes at a school (which I can do). Is ride bumming on empty legs a thing anymore? You know, that and the other old-school ways of getting flight time? The advantage of knowing people and preference in hiring might not be worth the time spent as a ramp rat, given the skew towards pilots in the current job market. At really any time 6+ years ago, I'm sure this would be a much more advantageous option, but I'm still considering it depending on how much advantage it's liable to give me.

So that's where I am. I've written off ATP flight school and other schools like it (where it's "We're gonna put you on the fast track to the airlines").

I've had a guy who flies Beavers on floats tell me to do #3, as well as my flight instructor (though he doesn't work up there so doesn't know exactly what the situation is now). I've also had a few of you tell me not to do that and choose #1 or #2.

Any more input would be appreciated.

 

[alaskadrifter]

My advice is worth what you paid for it, so here goes nuthin. Flight training up here is a pain in the butt. Summers are typically great flying wx, but fall, winter, and spring are hit or miss. Plus it’s much more expensive. Getting my SES was the most fun rating I’ve done, and it made me a better pilot so I highly recommend it, but no one up here will touch you as a seaplane pilot until you have some experience under your belt. Might as well hold off and spend the money on other ratings/time building. Same goes for tailwheel, unless you aren’t strapped for cash. I would recommend doing an SIC gig as you can learn the ropes without getting thrown to the wolves... as much. There are a few operators that can start you out on wheels, and transition you to floats. I think @Roger Roger would know more about that.

 

[Romulus]

My advice is worth what you paid for it, so here goes nuthin. Flight training up here is a pain in the butt. Summers are typically great flying wx, but fall, winter, and spring are hit or miss. Plus it’s much more expensive. Getting my SES was the most fun rating I’ve done, and it made me a better pilot so I highly recommend it, but no one up here will touch you as a seaplane pilot until you have some experience under your belt. Might as well hold off and spend the money on other ratings/time building. Same goes for tailwheel, unless you aren’t strapped for cash. I would recommend doing an SIC gig as you can learn the ropes without getting thrown to the wolves... as much. There are a few operators that can start you out on wheels, and transition you to floats. I think @Roger Roger would know more about that.

I agree with this. Show up with the FAA mins for the job. Don't worry about tail wheel or float stuff right away because no one will look at you without some experience. There a a couple places that hire at 250, a couple more at 500TT after 135 mins or an ATP you'll have lots of options. Just be a sponge with a good attitude.

 

[Advicedog]

My advice is worth what you paid for it, so here goes nuthin. Flight training up here is a pain in the butt. Summers are typically great flying wx, but fall, winter, and spring are hit or miss. Plus it’s much more expensive. Getting my SES was the most fun rating I’ve done, and it made me a better pilot so I highly recommend it, but no one up here will touch you as a seaplane pilot until you have some experience under your belt. Might as well hold off and spend the money on other ratings/time building. Same goes for tailwheel, unless you aren’t strapped for cash. I would recommend doing an SIC gig as you can learn the ropes without getting thrown to the wolves... as much. There are a few operators that can start you out on wheels, and transition you to floats. I think @Roger Roger would know more about that.

I agree with this. Show up with the FAA mins for the job. Don't worry about tail wheel or float stuff right away because no one will look at you without some experience. There a a couple places that hire at 250, a couple more at 500TT after 135 mins or an ATP you'll have lots of options. Just be a sponge with a good attitude.

Thanks for your input. The two people that suggested I go there as a ramp rat were my flight instructor (who doesn't live there) and a guy who got his job there over 10 years ago and has worked at that one company ever since. Like I said, it seems 10 years ago that option would make MUCH more sense, but not necessarily anymore.

As far as being a sponge with a good attitude, those are my specialties lol.

 

[MrAviator180]

"Go up there now, work as a ramp rat, and get those ratings and endorsements up there

1. Pros: Will have same quals as listed above. Will have built rapport with people, especially those I work for/with. High likelihood of nullifying total time deficits I have in comparison to other applicants.
2. Cons: Will likely take considerably longer to get my ratings unless I buy classes at a school (which I can do). Is ride bumming on empty legs a thing anymore? You know, that and the other old-school ways of getting flight time? The advantage of knowing people and preference in hiring might not be worth the time spent as a ramp rat, given the skew towards pilots in the current job market. At really any time 6+ years ago, I'm sure this would be a much more advantageous option, but I'm still considering it depending on how much advantage it's liable to give me."

1. Take it from someone who did try do this, and don't do this. Get your ratings and show people you're serious about FLYING and not RAMPING. Bumming rides isn't loggable nor will it really do much for you in the long run. Cool you got to put your hands on the controls and make airplane noises. Does that get you any closer to a qualified line pilot? Nope. My time I spent lifting ridiculously heavy things for air carriers in Alaska still takes its toll on me today and I'm in my early 20s. I will most likely need back surgery in the next 20 years. 91 legs are very rare with most air taxi carriers up there as they maximize cargo and passengers in any way possible. Regs are regs. Being the boss's ground crew won't let you fly an airplane for a living any sooner.


"

1. About 250TT IRA, MEL, CSEL/CMEL would be my quals
2. Pros: Have all the quals I need for SOMETHING once I get there. I'm not averse to SIC stuff. Can build to Part 135 mins (500TT, etc.) up there.
3. Cons: Less job opportunity compared to having part 135 mins. Showing up without knowing anyone."

This is the most logical approach for 135 VFR mins. Hageland does hire SICs into their 208s and 1900s and yes it is loggable.

 

[whoaitsrooner]

Ramping takes time away from flying, I think your time would be better spent in the lower 48 building hours over spending time in Alaska fueling planes and not flying. If you had company mins and they didn’t have a pilot position but did have a ramp position, then that’s another story. If you go sic, use it to get 500 tt then move to a PIC position. You’re better off PIC in a 207 then sic in a 208.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KKochan]

Do you already have the money to get to 250TT? If not, do you have a job now that pays well? If you don't you might as well go to AK and work while you finish ratings. Get the tailwheel endorsement. Fly tailwheels. Makes you a much better pilot and will help with the float flying.

Worry about the float one later, you basically only need the rating, someone will have to train you to work.

Summer is coming up. You can't beat AK in the summer, so come on up and work/train.

 

[Advicedog]

Do you already have the money to get to 250TT? If not, do you have a job now that pays well? If you don't you might as well go to AK and work while you finish ratings. Get the tailwheel endorsement. Fly tailwheels. Makes you a much better pilot and will help with the float flying.

Worry about the float one later, you basically only need the rating, someone will have to train you to work.

Summer is coming up. You can't beat AK in the summer, so come on up and work/train.

I've been blessed in regards to finances, so I can afford to just get the ratings. If I needed work, though, I'd definitely consider it. Or, doing more cybersecurity stuff, as much as I dislike it...

 

[GoDawgsGo]

Are you doing this as a method for time building to 1500 for ATP?

Sounds better than being a CFI to me.

 

[TallFlyer]

So many things I could say.......

I came up to AK in '04 with zero time and ultimately worked my way through all my ratings and started flying for a living. Took me a while, but I did it. Absolutely had a blast, but it was also at a very different time in the industry. I hear a little anti-airline sentiment in some of your post, and while I get that, you need to take a step back and consider the total career income opportunities in the airline business, vs being a bush rat for the rest of your career. I'll give you a hint, the difference for most is probably measured in millions, not to mention the odds of living longer in the airline seat, and the toll on your body which bush flying will take. Nothing like emptying that 2,000 lbs of crap out of your Caravan in Hooper Bay in a snowstorm a few times a day. Me? I'll be drinking coffee in my heated Flight Deck while someone else does the work.

Ok, that delicious ball of pessimism aside, Alaska is an AWESOME place to go fly, not in the hipster term of endearment way of saying it, but in the sense of the absolutely soul sucking gravity that immense mountains have on the human existence. Once you've been there and experienced it, you'll know there's nothing else like it, anywhere. I would give my left nut to take a summer off from my current gig and go fly a Navajo or even a 207 in JNU for a season. Probably won't even happen, but I'd go do it.

Ok, all that contradictory advice aside, here's my advice:
- If you want to go fly in AK, go do it.
- Find a cybersecurity job and fly on the side. If that's not a viable option, look into places like the ramp at FedEx, where you will start part time, but the opportunities for advancement seem to be high.
- Join CAP, which will get you privileges at the Elmendorf Aero Club. There is some extra hassle involved (like watching a whole mess of F-15s take off for 20 minutes while you're burning $260/hour in a multi), but the total cost savings will be worth it. Also, they allow overnight rentals, whereas I don't believe anyone at Merrill does.
- Ask @alaskadrifter about any right seat Caravan jobs that may be available for low timers. I'm not close enough to that market anymore to know.
- Above all, have an exit strategy to a more lucrative segment of the industry when the time is right. Maybe all us airline guys are glorified button pushers, but I'm slowly learning to find my personal fulfillment outside of work.

 

[alaskadrifter]

- Ask @alaskadrifter about any right seat Caravan jobs that may be available for low timers. I'm not close enough to that market anymore to know.
- Above all, have an exit strategy to a more lucrative segment of the industry when the time is right. Maybe all us airline guys are glorified button pushers, but I'm slowly learning to find my personal fulfillment outside of work.

Im not as up on the right seat gigs as I used to be. And as pilots is hard to not get our self worth from our jobs, but having a kid has really changed that for me. I highly recommend flying in AK, it will make any airline gig a breeze.

 

[Advicedog]

Are you doing this as a method for time building to 1500 for ATP?

Sounds better than being a CFI to me.

Time is time and I do have options and connections that can help get me to airlines or flying corporate jets should I want to in the future. But ATP/airline work is not a definite end to this path. It's not impossible that I'll fly little dinky planes out of God-knows-where for the rest of my life and be happy with just that. But we'll see.

So many things I could say.......

I came up to AK in '04 with zero time and ultimately worked my way through all my ratings and started flying for a living. Took me a while, but I did it. Absolutely had a blast, but it was also at a very different time in the industry. I hear a little anti-airline sentiment in some of your post, and while I get that, you need to take a step back and consider the total career income opportunities in the airline business, vs being a bush rat for the rest of your career. I'll give you a hint, the difference for most is probably measured in millions, not to mention the odds of living longer in the airline seat, and the toll on your body which bush flying will take. Nothing like emptying that 2,000 lbs of crap out of your Caravan in Hooper Bay in a snowstorm a few times a day. Me? I'll be drinking coffee in my heated Flight Deck while someone else does the work.

Ok, that delicious ball of pessimism aside, Alaska is an AWESOME place to go fly, not in the hipster term of endearment way of saying it, but in the sense of the absolutely soul sucking gravity that immense mountains have on the human existence. Once you've been there and experienced it, you'll know there's nothing else like it, anywhere. I would give my left nut to take a summer off from my current gig and go fly a Navajo or even a 207 in JNU for a season. Probably won't even happen, but I'd go do it.

Ok, all that contradictory advice aside, here's my advice:
- If you want to go fly in AK, go do it.
- Find a cybersecurity job and fly on the side. If that's not a viable option, look into places like the ramp at FedEx, where you will start part time, but the opportunities for advancement seem to be high.
- Join CAP, which will get you privileges at the Elmendorf Aero Club. There is some extra hassle involved (like watching a whole mess of F-15s take off for 20 minutes while you're burning $260/hour in a multi), but the total cost savings will be worth it. Also, they allow overnight rentals, whereas I don't believe anyone at Merrill does.
- Ask @alaskadrifter about any right seat Caravan jobs that may be available for low timers. I'm not close enough to that market anymore to know.
- Above all, have an exit strategy to a more lucrative segment of the industry when the time is right. Maybe all us airline guys are glorified button pushers, but I'm slowly learning to find my personal fulfillment outside of work.

I've actually already sacrificed millions with this career change. Unless I work for FedEx, I'm not likely to make more than I would have had I stayed in my previous line of work. That being said, I've not entirely written off the airlines. I have options in corporate jet flying once I hit 1200 hours, and once I hit 1500 and get ATP that'll be an option as well. But right now, I want to go to Alaska.

As for my finances, I'm pretty blessed. Won't get into it, but as long as I invest well and don't do something really stupid I'm not liable to miss the difference in pay should I remain a bush rat my whole life.

And even if I do end up missing out on a lot of dosh, you can't put a price on simply looking forward to waking up in the morning. Before I finally committed to this choice in my life, I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I felt it. I feel alive, staring this down. And funnily enough if I had to give you an exact amount of time in my life that I've felt truly ALIVE, it'd be about 120 hours.