A question for furloughed pilots

X-Forces

X-Forces

Big Black Guy
Just wondering, when you are on furlough are you still technically employed?

If so can you collect your unemployment insurance?

How does it work?
 
You are unemployed in every sense of the word.

The only thing you have is an agreement with the company to bring you back with seniority/longevity/pay rates/etc before they hire new employees.

*edit* Wow do we really need a LAST EDITED BY note within 30 seconds of a post?
 
X-Forces said:
Just wondering, when you are on furlough are you still technically employed?

If so can you collect your unemployment insurance?

How does it work?
Click to expand...


While on furlough, I will continue to accrue seniority, longevity, pay rates and keep my flight benefits for 5 years, unless 1) I get recalled or 2) I resign my seniority number. And yes, you can collect unemployment.
 
CRJDriver said:
While on furlough, I will continue to accrue seniority, longevity, pay rates and keep my flight benefits for 5 years, unless 1) I get recalled or 2) I resign my seniority number. And yes, you can collect unemployment.
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You accrue seniority? So if you get furloughed on first year pay, and get recalled 3 years later, you're now on 4th year pay?
 
Clocks said:
You accrue seniority? So if you get furloughed on first year pay, and get recalled 3 years later, you're now on 4th year pay?
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Straight from the contract...

A pilot will continue to accrue seniority for a period of five (5) years form the date of furlough

A pilot returning from furlough will be paid the rate of pay applicable to the category to which he is recalled.

Also, since I've gotten furloughed in January, I've moved up close to 60 spots on the seniority list, mainly because of Attrition, Early-Out programs, Voluntary furloughs, etc. Not that it matters, my seniority number is pretty much worthless and I'm not expecting a recall for several years, if at all.
 
CRJDriver said:
Straight from the contract...

A pilot will continue to accrue seniority for a period of five (5) years form the date of furlough

A pilot returning from furlough will be paid the rate of pay applicable to the category to which he is recalled.

Also, since I've gotten furloughed in January, I've moved up close to 60 spots on the seniority list, mainly because of Attrition, Early-Out programs, Voluntary furloughs, etc. Not that it matters, my seniority number is pretty much worthless and I'm not expecting a recall for several years, if at all.
Click to expand...
Oh you'll be back in four years, don't worry about it!;)
 
X-Forces said:
Just wondering, when you are on furlough are you still technically employed?

If so can you collect your unemployment insurance?

How does it work?
Click to expand...

Yes.

You've been involuntarily placed out of the workforce.

Works very easily actually. You visit your local DOL career center with your separation notice and speak with a UI claim representative and they eventually get you an amount that you're qualified for, and explain how to verify your unemployment.

CRJDriver said:
Straight from the contract...

A pilot will continue to accrue seniority for a period of five (5) years form the date of furlough

A pilot returning from furlough will be paid the rate of pay applicable to the category to which he is recalled.

Also, since I've gotten furloughed in January, I've moved up close to 60 spots on the seniority list, mainly because of Attrition, Early-Out programs, Voluntary furloughs, etc. Not that it matters, my seniority number is pretty much worthless and I'm not expecting a recall for several years, if at all.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between seniority and longevity.

Longevity is used for pay purposes, which, as far as I'm aware, no regional contract provides increases in longevity to furloughed pilots.

For example, you're furloughed at 1.5 years w/ the company. When you return, your anniversary date will be adjusted to reflect the 1.5 years of longevity, so that six months from your recall date you'll receive the increase of longevity to year two pay rate for your seat/equipment.
 
X-Forces said:
Just wondering, when you are on furlough are you still technically employed?

If so can you collect your unemployment insurance?

How does it work?
Click to expand...

About the only tie you have with the employer that furloughed you is they have your phone number. It's the same thing as a layoff except that you come back if and when they need you. You collect unemployment.
 
Clocks said:
You accrue seniority? So if you get furloughed on first year pay, and get recalled 3 years later, you're now on 4th year pay?
Click to expand...

At my carrier, you continue to accrue seniority. However, your longevity (which is what your pay raises, etc, are based on), stops accruing after 60 days on furlough. I was furloughed while on my second year with the company. Therefore, say I'm recalled next year. I'd still be on second year pay, but my seniority date remains the same for the purposes of bidding/scheduling, etc. Not sure if it works that way elsewhere.
 
It also depends on your contract. If it's a standard one it's just seniority and recall rights, nothing else. Longevity and flight benefits are nice to have to make the furlough a little less crappy, if that's even possible.
 
germb747 said:
You're off the payroll, so yes you can collect unemployment.
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True, but an arbitrator told the Allied Pilot Association their furloughed pilots still count as "employees". This has precedence among government employees. You are quite correct about the unemployment which seemed to be what the original poster wanted to know, but I thought a fuller explanation was more fun. :pirate:

http://crjaward.webs.com/Cockpit_Crewmember_Floor_Decision_P-28-08.pdf
APA news said:
7,300 Cockpit Crewmember Floor Grievance Ruling
Your National Officers and Board of Directors are disappointed to inform you that the arbitrator presiding over the 7,300 cockpit crewmember floor presidential grievance, presented by the pilots' System Board of Adjustment, has ruled that AMR is NOT currently in violation.

In his ruling executed today, Arbitrator Herbert Fishgold explained to APA and AMR legal representatives that he has found that the number of “pilots employed on the seniority list” to be well in excess of the 7,300 limitation. Arbitrator Fishgold determined that furloughed pilots and those on leaves of absence count toward the cockpit crewmember floor limitation. His interpretation actually puts the number of pilots currently “employed” by American Airlines at more than 11,000. This finding is totally counter to the labor-protective provisions of the contractual language.

What is more telling is management’s total disregard for agreed-upon contract language. Both parties clearly knew the intent of the crewmember floor protection language when it was agreed upon in our contract, yet when faced with complying with the language, management rewrote history and was dishonest about their understanding of the agreement. Worse yet, the arbitrator allowed AMR’s arguments to divert him from ruling on the clear intent of the contractual language.

In response to this ruling, which ignores clear contractual language and the intent of the original agreement, the APA legal team formally filed a dissenting opinion, which will be attached to the final ruling paperwork. Both the arbitrator’s ruling and the APA dissent will be posted shortly to the members' home page of alliedpilots.org, under "Headliners." We urge you to carefully read both documents.

Additionally, the APA Board of Directors unanimously directed APA’s General Counsel to file a lawsuit to overturn the ruling. The suit against AMR will be filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C. within 24 hours.

When the clear intent of our contract language is blatantly violated, the union must take extraordinary measures to defend the contractual protections we agreed to and rely upon. This also highlights the need for our contract protections to be constructed in clearly defined language that offers no loopholes or room for interpretation. Some issues are worth the extra effort to defend. Surely this one, which involves the most basic protection of pilot jobs on the property, qualifies as one of those issues. While these kinds of suits are extremely difficult to win, your leadership is committed to protecting your interests and will use every tool available to do so. We will keep you updated as the lawsuit progresses.
Click to expand...
 
germb747 said:
At my carrier, you continue to accrue seniority. However, your longevity (which is what your pay raises, etc, are based on), stops accruing after 60 days on furlough. I was furloughed while on my second year with the company. Therefore, say I'm recalled next year. I'd still be on second year pay, but my seniority date remains the same for the purposes of bidding/scheduling, etc. Not sure if it works that way elsewhere.
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Bah! I got the two words mixed around. Reading your explanation cleared it up for me.

At xjet we accrue seniority but not longevity. I thought CRJDriver meant he was accruing longevity, in which case I wanted to know where he was working :)
 
Clocks said:
Bah! I got the two words mixed around. Reading your explanation cleared it up for me.

At xjet we accrue seniority but not longevity. I thought CRJDriver meant he was accruing longevity, in which case I wanted to know where he was working :)
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Well, his first posts indicated that he does, then he quoted his contract, which to me appeared as if there might still have been some confusion.

The two words mean different things.
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear. We accrue seniority but only for five years, longvity is different and you do not accrue that during furlough. Would be nice though;)
 
Socal321 said:
It's the same thing as a layoff except that you come back if and when they need you. You collect unemployment.
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Sounds exactly like a "lay off".

Furlough - fancy pilot speak for laid off.

Example -
When talking to other pilots:
So, minifool...what have you been up to?

Well, after I got furloughed from Airnet I picked up this corporate/charter gig. It pays the bills so I can't complain a whole lot. Same thing 'cept now the cargo bitches when I slam one on in a stiff crosswind and try to make the turnoff by the FBO so I can get to the chair in time to see Mythbusters.

When talking to "normies":
So, minifool...what have you been up to?

Well, after I got furloughed from the cargo company I was flying for, I picked up a job flying a small business jet for a charter company.

I see...what's a furlough.

...I got laid off.

...Oh.
-mini
 
Thanks for all the answers everyone.


CRJDriver said:
While on furlough, I will continue to accrue seniority, longevity, pay rates and keep my flight benefits for 5 years, unless 1) I get recalled or 2) I resign my seniority number. And yes, you can collect unemployment.
Click to expand...

This is something else I have wondered about. What is involved with one resigning their seniority number, and why would one want to/have to do it?
 
X-Forces said:
This is something else I have wondered about. What is involved with one resigning their seniority number, and why would one want to/have to do it?
Click to expand...

You resign like any other job, by putting in a written resignation notice to the Chief Pilot's office. If you get hired by a new company while on furlough, some companies make you resign your seniority number, that way you won't bail on them if recall time comes around. Other than that, there is no reason to resign. I can not resign my number, otherwise I would lose my unemployment benefits.
 
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