A note to the new folks. This is a workplace.

[ZapBrannigan]

A note to those of you just coming up in this business.

It is very easy to become comfortable and even friendly with the person sitting next to you. Don’t allow yourself to become so comfortable that you feel that it’s ok to share your most divisive worldviews. You know what they are. If you find yourself wearing your political beliefs on your sleeve, or are speaking about another employee or, workgroup, or subsection of your own workgroup using pejorative terms - that should be a red flag. You don’t KNOW the person sitting in the other seat and you certainly don’t know them well enough to show your ( . ) by using disparaging language regarding their race, sexual persuasion, ethnicity, religion, vaccination status or socio-political beliefs. If your company is advocating for action on some global topic that goes contrary to your belief system, trust me the flight deck is NOT the place to discuss that, nor is the hotel shuttle, or at dinner with the crew. Definitely don’t discuss within earshot of the passengers, especially if you’re using coarse language. You are putting your coworkers in a tough position when you behave that way.

There are dozens of topics of conversation about hobbies, travel, family, airplanes, or even the contract. But if you are about to broach a topic that you’ve heard some talking head bloviating about on your news program of choice, you’re making a bad workplace decision. Remember that not everyone is like you. Not everyone believes the same things that you do. And our differences are what make the world go around, so please don’t build walls that prevent good crew communication by saying something that your fellow crewmembers might find offensive. If there’s any question, keep it to yourself. It’s a workplace, not a flying club.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[killbilly]

Sadly, your target audience for this well-reasoned (and well-written) note will likely never read it here.

 

[JordanD]

I can’t stand how many people’s only hobby now is apparently being pissed off about politics. They become insufferable, I’ll try to steer the discussion to literally anything else and it always comes back to it. Can’t talk about sports because “they turned it too political.” Movies are “too woke.” It’s exhausting and sometimes if you flat out say “I don’t want to talk about that” they still don’t take the hint.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Sadly, your target audience for this well-reasoned (and well-written) note will likely never read it here.

Maybe if enough of us say things like this, we can slowly change the way we treat one another. We’re never going to change the way people are at home, but a little bit at a time we can elevate our discourse at work.

 

[killbilly]

Maybe if enough of us say things like this, we can slowly change the way we treat one another. We’re never going to change the way people are at home, but a little bit at a time we can elevate our discourse at work.

I agree. After the conversation we had the other day, I had a standing-by-the-gate conversation with a co-worker who was....less than situationally aware and yeah, I definitely felt like it was putting me in an awkward position. Would've loved to call it out by dynamics didn't really allow for it and professionalism would have been sorely compromised further than it already was.

Called on a couple decades of sales acumen and smoothly managed to shift the course of the discussion to less controversial waters while mentally thinking, "My GOD! Read the room!"

 

[killbilly]

Maybe if enough of us say things like this, we can slowly change the way we treat one another. We’re never going to change the way people are at home, but a little bit at a time we can elevate our discourse at work.

Something else I thought of.

This needs to be led from the left seat. There's too much of a power imbalance between new people and leadership. At least, in my org, this would need to be led from the left seat. I can't speak to yours, but I suspect it would be most effective that way.

 

[DropTank]

Save the sex, politics, and religion until after duty time is over.

After duty time is over:
"You know, Trump had a lot of good thi-" *SLAM*..........*click*

 

[Skåning]

You don’t KNOW the person sitting in the other seat and you certainly don’t know them well enough to show your ( . ) by using disparaging language regarding their race, sexual persuasion, ethnicity, religion, vaccination status or socio-political beliefs. If your company is advocating for action on some global topic that goes contrary to your belief system, trust me the flight deck is NOT the place to discuss that, nor is the hotel shuttle, or at dinner with the crew. Definitely don’t discuss within earshot of the passengers, especially if you’re using coarse language. You are putting your coworkers in a tough position when you behave that way.

Sounds like story time, can you give any deets about what happened?

 

[roundout]

Sounds like story time, can you give any deets about what happened?

$5 says it at least tangentially touched anti Semitic. Any takers? @BEEF SUPREME ? @Gonzo ?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

$5 says it at least tangentially touched anti Semitic. Any takers? @BEEF SUPREME ? @Gonzo ?

It happens with surprising regularity. If I could have lived 2010 over again I just would have called the CP or HR and have been taken off the flight and just told them what occurred. Now I simply shut down anti semitic comments with some side eye and say well that is my background. If they want to keep talking, it's on. Fortunately everyone who has started down that path has quickly STFU.

 

[DE727UPS]

It takes two to have a conversation. I found, in either of the seats I was in, that just not engaging was the best way to shut it down. Just say "Yeah, whatever". They get the hint you don't care and don't want to talk about it. Also, as has been mentioned, try change the topic to the contract or crew scheduling.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

A note to those of you just coming up in this business.

It is very easy to become comfortable and even friendly with the person sitting next to you. Don’t allow yourself to become so comfortable that you feel that it’s ok to share your most divisive worldviews. You know what they are. If you find yourself wearing your political beliefs on your sleeve, or are speaking about another employee or, workgroup, or subsection of your own workgroup using pejorative terms - that should be a red flag. You don’t KNOW the person sitting in the other seat and you certainly don’t know them well enough to show your ( . ) by using disparaging language regarding their race, sexual persuasion, ethnicity, religion, vaccination status or socio-political beliefs. If your company is advocating for action on some global topic that goes contrary to your belief system, trust me the flight deck is NOT the place to discuss that, nor is the hotel shuttle, or at dinner with the crew. Definitely don’t discuss within earshot of the passengers, especially if you’re using coarse language. You are putting your coworkers in a tough position when you behave that way.

There are dozens of topics of conversation about hobbies, travel, family, airplanes, or even the contract. But if you are about to broach a topic that you’ve heard some talking head bloviating about on your news program of choice, you’re making a bad workplace decision. Remember that not everyone is like you. Not everyone believes the same things that you do. And our differences are what make the world go around, so please don’t build walls that prevent good crew communication by saying something that your fellow crewmembers might find offensive. If there’s any question, keep it to yourself. It’s a workplace, not a flying club.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

LOL!


I told you. It ain't gonna stop just because you moved to the left seat. It's the same thing, this time from the right seat. ONLY difference now is, as a CA, you can easily shut down that convo and move on/change the subject.



I have YET to regret my decision to slam click on my crew for overnights.

Zero drama, zero problems, complete plausible deniability (thank you Independence Day for that wonderful phrase).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You were right. No question about it. And I'm changing the subject with surprising regularity. Thankfully I'm also a varsity level slam clicker.

Only problem is that it's the cultural norm here to buy probationary FOs meals and the beverage of their choice.

As Sheldon might say, it's a non-optional social convention.

 

[CFIT99]

that was a benefit of being Captain.... I didn't feel bad about calling out insane Qanon, Trump masturbation fantasy they had..

 

[jmc4]

I agree. After the conversation we had the other day, I had a standing-by-the-gate conversation with a co-worker who was....less than situationally aware and yeah, I definitely felt like it was putting me in an awkward position. Would've loved to call it out by dynamics didn't really allow for it and professionalism would have been sorely compromised further than it already was.

Called on a couple decades of sales acumen and smoothly managed to shift the course of the discussion to less controversial waters while mentally thinking, "My GOD! Read the room!"

Most uncomfortable part of the job. Most of my experience as a FO with this kind of situation came after a schedule change, delay for MX, or something else out of our control, including politics.

You have a professional standards committee at your place, however the best place to start is with the other pilot directly when the time is right.

Don’t hesitate to call, it’s not meant to ruin someone’s career, it just helps us all get better. Matter of fact it might help someone come to the light before the next person calls HR.

 

[jmc4]

You were right. No question about it. And I'm changing the subject with surprising regularity. Thankfully I'm also a varsity level slam clicker.

Only problem is that it's the cultural norm here to buy probationary FOs meals and the beverage of their choice.

As Sheldon might say, it's a non-optional social convention.

the tradition is the same here, however I am on the receiving end of it but never expect it. Thanks for honoring it and not being a slam clicker!

Sometimes when the conversation turns south or when I get asked directly if I drive a specific kind of car or who I voted for, it’s awkward.

Seems like outside of the flight deck we let our filters go and our guards down. It also seems we frequent the same places to eat on overnights, and there’s no fooling the staff about who we work for. I’ve even had one waitress say “how long have you guys been pilots at CoAirJetz?”

Sometimes I’ve brought that up when it’s getting awkward and conversation steering isn’t successful. While we might not be in new balances and jean shorts, others have and the staff isn’t dumb, especially internationally.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Man, you people must have really boring cockpits.

While I agree that nobody should be disparaging any racial, ethnic, etc. group for obvious reasons, there isn't any reason that people can't discuss things like politics in the cockpit. If you don't want to discuss it, then just say so when the other person brings it up. But a whole lot of people enjoy discussing that stuff, even with people they disagree with, so the idea that they shouldn't ever bring it up is nuts.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sounds like story time, can you give any deets about what happened?

A SWA pilot was being a SWA pilot.

Statistically speaking, that's what happened.

 

[jmc4]

Man, you people must have really boring cockpits.

While I agree that nobody should be disparaging any racial, ethnic, etc. group for obvious reasons, there isn't any reason that people can't discuss things like politics in the cockpit. If you don't want to discuss it, then just say so when the other person brings it up. But a whole lot of people enjoy discussing that stuff, even with people they disagree with, so the idea that they shouldn't ever bring it up is nuts.

I was under the impression we were talking about when a political discussion goes too far and the disparaging remarks come out in front of pax or in public.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I was under the impression we were talking about when a political discussion goes too far and the disparaging remarks come out in front of pax or in public.

..or within earshot of pax, coworkers, etc.