A little question for all you future airline drivers?

[derg]

I didn't go into the profession for money. But I will shamefully admit that the only thing keeping me in this profession after the stark changes since late 2001 is probably money.

Spending more time with middle aged captains than I spend with my own wife gets really old after a while.

Missing holidays, birthdays, parties, most weekends and major events got old real quick.

If this was a $40,000 a year job, I'd probably much rather work a regular job and spend more quality time at home with my family.

Sorry man, I really couldn't find an answer that fit!

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
actually, i'm not in it for the money.....or the joy of flying....i just got hooked on flying bigger aircraft.....I dunno what it is, the bigger the airplane I fly, the more I wanna fly a bigger one....its like heroin...but more addictive i think

[/ QUOTE ]

Flying a bigger or a different airplane would be cool.

I've been on the 88/90 since 2000 and I hate to admit that I'm pretty bored with it!

I couldn't imagine flying only one type of aircraft for another 28 years. Perish the thought!

 

[sxauer]

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actually, i'm not in it for the money.....or the joy of flying....i just got hooked on flying bigger aircraft.....I dunno what it is, the bigger the airplane I fly, the more I wanna fly a bigger one....its like heroin...but more addictive i think

[/ QUOTE ]

Flying a bigger or a different airplane would be cool.

I've been on the 88/90 since 2000 and I hate to admit that I'm pretty bored with it!

I couldn't imagine flying only one type of aircraft for another 28 years. Perish the thought!

[/ QUOTE ]
I see doug is the same way as me....when you start flying a bigger model you get used to it....then you need more....so you get a job....and then you get used to it again...and you need more again....hehehe...like i said....heroin is a much cheaper way out probably.....

 

[Snow]

Well I would have thought the years of low pay being a CFI and flying for a regional would weed out most of the people who are just in it for the money.

For me though, I'm sure I could be making as much as an airline pilot as a businessman but I don't think I would enjoy it as much. Sure maybe your home every night but if your anything like my father your always bringing your work home with you and attending meetings on Saturday. Plus I value my free time and I think having time off that pilots do will allow me to do that. Plus I love airplanes so there's a fair bit of job satisfaction in there too.

As for driving a truck, I've actually considered getting my truck licence just cause I've always wanted to know how. It's a bit pricy at $100hr though, usally need 10hrs instruction to become profishent.

Also those of you who complain about working conditions as a pilot, join the army for a few years, that will change your tune.

 

[tonyw]

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but you gotta admit...the ones that are in it for the money screw it up for the rest of us!

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I think they BENEFIT the rest of us. The higher these folks push the pay, the better it is for the rest of us. We will get more money when we make it.

I have to ask you a question, 737 dude. How old are you? I've found that the people who have been around the block a few times will tell you that you're damn right they're in it for the money, while the younger ones are the ones who tell you that money doesn't matter. Once you have bills to pay, food to put on the table, and so on, you very quickly stop saying things like the money doesn't matter.

 

[derg]

Actually the 'weed out' doesn't really exist when it comes to pilots that are solely in it for money.

I know lots of people that lost the 'love' earlier in their careers but become voracious in their efforts to get to a better paying airline.

When I was single and able to jumpseat around the country to see friends and family while working at Skyway, I really wasn't in it for the money because it was a brand new exciting world.

Eventually, after getting hired at a major and wanting a normal existence where I could say, "Party? Next month on the 18th? I'll see ya there!" as opposed to "Party on the 18th? Well, I'll let you know on the 15th, but then I might be able to trip trade, swap or pick up a trip and try to be there. But I think I might have recurrent that day...".

After the slow realization that the reason why a lot of pilots get divorced isn't because of shennanigans with flight attendants, it's because you and your loved ones pay an extremely high price for your profession and some can't handle it. I'm a newlywed with no kids and my schedule is extremely hard on Kristie, but she won't admit it!

 

[ready2fly]

I, for one, will tell you that I wouldn't be too gung ho about a future career in aviation if the pay were'nt somewhat attractive and here's why:

1. Most major airlines and some regionals require a four year college degree. I'm fine there. I have my B.A. and an A.S. for good measure. BUT - a direct result of that is the dreaded school loan and tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

Those gotta be paid.

2. Training expenses. I'm not rich, so I had to take out loans so that I could pursue a career as a pilot. Again - tens of thousands of dollars.

Those gotta be paid too.

3. Add in the necessities of life = mortgage, utilities, food, vehicles, medical bills....

..... and now we're talking about a BUTTLOAD of money.

Then add in the hardships that go along with flying for an airline =

4. TIME AWAY FROM HOME/FAMILY!! Missed holidays/birthdays/vacations/anniversaries.. etc. An "accepted" downside, if you want to fly for the bigs.

5. A medical exam - every 6 months - just to keep you job... (not paid for by the airlines - comes out of YOUR pocket).

6. Recurrent training.

7. The list goes on and on....

Basically, what I'm getting at here is - No WAY I'd be pursuing that kind of career if there wasn't some hope of SOME monetary advantage at some point down the line!!

The "I'd fly for free" mantra is all nice and warm and fuzzy, but it's NOT reality.

Wait until you HAVE a mortgage, car payment, family of your own to support... then see if you're singing the "I'd fly for fee" song.

Don't think you will.

That's my $0.03 (threw in a an extra $0.01 there) from a guy who hasn't "made it" at an airline, but has "lived the real world" outside it.

Good luck to all!!

R2F

 

[E_Dawg]

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Truthfully guys, I just wantd to know who here was going into this profession just for the money. I'm not saying fly for free,but you gotta admit...the ones that are in it for the money screw it up for the rest of us!

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Money is an issue. Flying for living is not like volunteering to drive for Meals on Wheels; it is a job that you must work incredibly hard to obtain and keep, and it should have payrates equal to the value of the labor.

I really don't think the people who want to fly soley for the money make it very far in the training progression at all; flying simply costs too much time and money to get to a place where you make a decent amount, and anyone trying to make six figures will drop out flustered and frustrated long before they see five zeros.

But those who do make it deserve huge paychecks (whether they get huge paychecks is a matter of opinion).

 

[A320_DUDE]

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Really? I think they BENEFIT the rest of us. The higher these folks push the pay, the better it is for the rest of us. We will get more money when we make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those same people won't take a paycut to keep you on the seniority list next downturn. Let's see if you still have that attitude then

[ QUOTE ]
I have to ask you a question, 737 dude. How old are you? I've found that the people who have been around the block a few times will tell you that you're damn right they're in it for the money, while the younger ones are the ones who tell you that money doesn't matter. Once you have bills to pay, food to put on the table, and so on, you very quickly stop saying things like the money doesn't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Today I am 22 years old(Happy Birthday to me!

)...so I guess I qualify as a "snot nosed punk" who "knows nothing about the real world"? I'm not going in this for the money......taking a job simply for the money will make you unhappy, it did during my first airline job!

I spend 4 nights a week in a crashpad with 3 other people,spend less that 48 hours at my real home,I commute for about 40 minutes on a turboprop,still can't hold the shift and days off I want after 6+ mos and I work 5+ Florida flights a day(maybe thats why I'm so cranky all the time)......all for a grand total of about 24k last year,so as you can see I'm definatly not here for the money.

Here's a simple quote that will follow me forever: "Do what you like and the money will follow"

 

[tonyw]

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Those same people won't take a paycut to keep you on the seniority list next downturn. Let's see if you still have that attitude then

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You mean like those "greedy" UAL guys who made $300K a year who just took a 30 percent pay cut?

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I'm not going in this for the money......taking a job simply for the money will make you unhappy, it did during my first airline job!

Here's a simple quote that will follow me forever: "Do what you like and the money will follow"

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured that. Come talk to me in ten years and see if you still have that attitude. My dad loves his job, and he's been at it since 1974. But he's not going to take a paycut to stay there, he'll take the early out.

When you've got things like a mortgage, car payment, and so on, we'll see if you still don't care about money.

 

[A320_DUDE]

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[ QUOTE ]
Those same people won't take a paycut to keep you on the seniority list next downturn. Let's see if you still have that attitude then

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like those "greedy" UAL guys who made $300K a year who just took a 30 percent pay cut?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. The Frontier and AirTran guys had the right idea after 9/11....they both took pay cuts to keep the bottom 1/4 of their guys employed.I think that was an awesome thing to do...to me that's a "brotherhood" of pilots. No other pilot group did that,even though they were bitching and moaning about furloughs. The F9/FL drivers make no where near the amount that so called "major" airline drivers make but were willing to take a cut in pay. I'm quite sure that the junior drivers at both companys will remember that and will "Pay It Forward" if and when the industry gets in this kind of situation again.

[ QUOTE ]
I figured that. Come talk to me in ten years and see if you still have that attitude. My dad loves his job, and he's been at it since 1974. But he's not going to take a paycut to stay there, he'll take the early out.

When you've got things like a mortgage, car payment, and so on, we'll see if you still don't care about money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can pretty much guarentee that in ten years I'll still have that attitude. Remember I'm not shooting for a major airline seat....a seat at a pretty good regional or a LCC is all I want. If I wanted to make boko money, I'd be harrassing Doug to walk my resume into Delta. I want to fly,alot....those kind of airlines allow that,while paying good money.

I will say this folks.....chasing the money will cause you to be sorely hurt in the long run. Look at Micheal Orenstein,he left a pretty stable job at America West for United. I don't know why, but I assume he saw dreams of 300k,777s,and 20 days off a month and made the jump. Now he's furloughed and trying to find a flying job, while those guys that started with him at AmWest are most likely looking at upgrading into captain seats on A320s and 737s. That's really sad and truthfully I feel sorry for him. Don't make the same mistake guys.....because the majority of us will be flying the line next downturn and I can promise it won't be pretty.