A few questions about Pay Scales and ROI

G

Graypilot289

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

I'm currently in a college aviation program. As is stands now I'm just a Private pilot with an instrument rating, I have around 210 TT, I'm about to get my CPL and if all goes as planned I'll have my MEL and CFI certificate by the end of summer.

Recently I've been becoming more and more discouraged at the job outlook of becoming a regional pilot. I keep hearing more and more negative things, mainly about pay. I love flying, but the thought of doing it and not earning a very enjoyable living have me considering a move to a flight dispatch school ( I've looked at Jepp mainly). I've read elsewhere on this forum that there seems to be a much higher return on investment ( training vs salary) in the dispatch world.

My question to all of you is what can one expect to earn in the dispatch profession? Is there anywhere that has pay scale ( similar the the pilot pay scales on Airline Pilot Central) ? If not, can anyone provide some numbers for me. It would be greatly appreciated.

I was originally going to ask where bases are for dispatchers but I found this:

MSP x 2 (Endeavor and Compass)
ATL (Expressjet)
SGU (Skywest)
ATW (Air Wisconsin)
PHX (Mesa)
DFW (Envoy fmr American Eagle)
STL x 2 (Trans States and GoJet)
DAY (PSA)
CLE (Commutair)
HYA (Cape Air)
IND x 3 (Republic, Shuttle America, Chataqua)
SBY (Piedmont)
FLL (Silver)

in a recent thread. I haven't been able to find any recent or thorough pay scales though. So if anyone could match some $$ amounts to those companies it would help out a ton. Thanks a lot.
 
Graypilot289 said:
Hi everyone,

I'm currently in a college aviation program. As is stands now I'm just a Private pilot with an instrument rating, I have around 210 TT, I'm about to get my CPL and if all goes as planned I'll have my MEL and CFI certificate by the end of summer.

Recently I've been becoming more and more discouraged at the job outlook of becoming a regional pilot. I keep hearing more and more negative things, mainly about pay. I love flying, but the thought of doing it and not earning a very enjoyable living have me considering a move to a flight dispatch school ( I've looked at Jepp mainly). I've read elsewhere on this forum that there seems to be a much higher return on investment ( training vs salary) in the dispatch world.

My question to all of you is what can one expect to earn in the dispatch profession? Is there anywhere that has pay scale ( similar the the pilot pay scales on Airline Pilot Central) ? If not, can anyone provide some numbers for me. It would be greatly appreciated.

I was originally going to ask where bases are for dispatchers but I found this:

MSP x 2 (Endeavor and Compass)
ATL (Expressjet)
SGU (Skywest)
ATW (Air Wisconsin)
PHX (Mesa)
DFW (Envoy fmr American Eagle)
STL x 2 (Trans States and GoJet)
DAY (PSA)
CLE (Commutair)
HYA (Cape Air)
IND x 3 (Republic, Shuttle America, Chataqua)
SBY (Piedmont)
FLL (Silver)

in a recent thread. I haven't been able to find any recent or thorough pay scales though. So if anyone could match some $$ amounts to those companies it would help out a ton. Thanks a lot.
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There's more flying jobs out there aside from the regionals.
 
Graypilot289 said:
My question to all of you is what can one expect to earn in the dispatch profession? Is there anywhere that has pay scale ( similar the the pilot pay scales on Airline Pilot Central) ? If not, can anyone provide some numbers for me. It would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Over the course of a whole career, you'll do much better flying. Plus, if you like flying, you will likely be happier.
Besides that, you've already paid for the expensive training - sunk cost now, so the ROI on flying isn't so bad at all.
 
Yeah I know there are other routes @z987k , but that one seems the easiest to get into, and my major is sort of set up to get into that sector.

And from what I've read on this site @drunkenbeagle there are some such as yourself who say flying is more financially lucrative, and then there are some who say that a six figure salary is easily attainable as long as you're a hard worker and do well at the job. I'm looking for actual pay scales or something like that to prove either way. Also would be interested in knowing the benefits of the job. I know dispatchers have jumpseating privileges but do those extend to family members and friends too? For example, the regional that most people at my school go to after building up time instructing, ExpressJet, gives flying privileges to parents, spouse, and one friend.

Thanks to the both of you for the responses.
 
This question is asked often, a quick search would answer most of your questions.

That said the ROI is good, a $5k outlay will net you a license and a job in short order with a regional. Pay there is bad - you're looking at $15/hr to start with top out around $20-25. Schedule is typically 4-on 3-off 10 hour shifts. You can expect to work for a regional for 1-5 years on average before getting to a major.

Major pay on average will start $50-60k and top out $100-130k base with bonuses on top and llots of opportunities to make more money in around 10 years.

You can also pursue smaller cargo outfits, I have no clue what pay is like at those.

Benefits are the same as for a pilot e.g. standby flight bennies for you and family and you also get jumpseating privileges for yourself.

It's a great gig and the compensation can be really good. Search around the threads here for more info on pay and SOC locations, the info is here.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Over the course of a whole career, you'll do much better flying. Plus, if you like flying, you will likely be happier. Besides that, you've already paid for the expensive training - sunk cost now, so the ROI on flying isn't so bad at all.
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I'm curious how this could be? Figure an investment of 120K for flying vs. 5K to dispatch. I understand that a senior dispatcher at a major can make upwards of 150ish a year with OT and bonuses.

I fly, and do it for the pure enjoyment of it, but as a dispatcher, I get to sleep in my own bed every night. Best of both worlds :-)
 
Job security is better as a dispatcher in the long run as well. No hemorrhaging then bleeding as one often sees with flight crew workforce numbers.

Airlines may close their doors to all, but for those who remain open dispatcher furloughs are a tremendous rarity.
 
Graypilot289 said:
Yeah I know there are other routes @z987k , but that one seems the easiest to get into, and my major is sort of set up to get into that sector.
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Regardless of the major you have, even if it's aviation, I assure you it has nothing to do with flying an airplane professionally.
 
If you "love" flying than stick to flying, but if your main focus is ROI, than dispatch is where its at.. Or atleast i think so.
Almost every single dispatcher in our office holds a commercial pilots license. Yet they decided to go the dispatch route because the ROI was quicker than flying.. PLUS dispatchers do NOT require a medical or have a required retirement age.. We have a few dispatchers that been at the desk over 50 years.. On the flip side we was force to let go a lot of good pilots due to age.. Now those pilots are out of work and are too old to start a new career, yet too young to retire..
 
Disclaimer: I am not a dispatcher. I don't even have my DX ticket yet, but I'm headed that way. But I did work as a pilot once. ( and I stayed in a HolidayInn Express last night) So here is my suggestion...

Someone on this thread once wrote a reply to me that stated,"if you want to dispatch, then dispatch" (At the time I was asking about other airline jobs) I would just echo what he said with one little mod... if you want to fly then by all means...And I do mean...BY ALL MEANS, FLY! There are way more pilots and flying jobs in this big world than dispatching jobs. You can do all sorts of flying other than instructing to build hours. I was like you a long time ago, same scenario, same economy, same old "it's all crap" comments from pilots...At the FBO I was working at, we were hiring furloughed pilots from the majors to do charters, so I freaked out. I eventually decided to bail and do other stuff instead. WORST decision ever. I was influenced too easily without finding out on my own. I kick myself everyday for not "hanging in there" and getting thru the early rough stuff. Soon you will see that 2 years of instructing followed by 2 years of hauling freight (one possible scenario, I realize there are a million stories out there) will go by so fast. It will be over and done before you know it and will soon be a distant memory. Another thing, until you have actually worked as a pilot in some of these jobs, you won't know what you like or dislike. There are lifers at every level of aviation . Some of them performing jobs that we would never do and living in places we would never live. (Im talking to you Ohio!) And when you ask them, how do they survive?..."love".

More to the point...You are asking about ROI in terms of career choice? Dude, this is America. This country is slowing turning into a Right to Work zone. "You can work, Right?"
Or you must have either a Jewish mom or a Korean father? Have you not heard of Med school or Law school? It seems like you are fixated on money. Your main metric seems to be income growth and the establishment of wealth. If that is the case then you need to sell real estate! It's easy to get in and super easy to make lots of cash. (It's the "Second oldest Profession" and a direct spin off of the "Oldest Profession known to man") You could even afford to have your own aircraft!

When it comes to ANY type of aviation job, one will assuredly incur low pay and crappy conditions at some point. But if you stay in long enough, if you just hang in there and enjoy those sunrises at FL160, you can rise above the brambles and enjoy an even nicer ride at FL380.
No career path in aviation will be easy, simple, guaranteed or lucrative. But it might just feel petty damn good. It's called love. Do what you love.

Regarding part of Keola's comments:: One thing about the guys who have a CPL and fly the desk instead....What some of them will never tell you is they have 3 DUIs, or a serious heart disease , etc.....in other words IF they could be flying they would (SOME OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM). I also understand that for people with families ,the QOL for a low time line pilot is rough. So, family concerns are always a new challenge and heavily inform our job choices. And for the others, well I guess....they just didn't love it. Meh....
 
Well said, Taxi Back.

Rather than link to an old thread then have people come back to this for comment, etc... I'll just paste a post from back in the day with my two cents on why I think hiring a pilot as a dispatcher, in general, is a poor idea:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not speaking for my employer on this next point, this is just my personal professional opinion. I think it's a bad idea for companies to hire pilots as dispatchers. It's one thing if a pilot realizes that life out on the line isn't suitable to the quality of life expected or desired. One may still wish to work in aviation, that is a yearning that is hard for some people to shake. The price of pilot certification can be steep, and it can be an enticing way to jump into a job to regain financial stability (to a certain extent) and still attain a sense of fulfillment. It may also seem a logical way to make ends meet if furloughed from the flight deck.

However, I think that if one were to retain hopes of becoming a professional pilot, the inevitable result is that employment in a dispatch environment would be temporary. Resignation either due to dissatisfaction of the working duties or to seek employment as a pilot are the most likely outcomes, and the company benefits little, if at all, from the experiment.

I'd like to clarify that nowhere in my opinion shall I suggest that pilots are not equipped to succeed as dispatchers. The overlap of knowledge required to execute well in both positions is significant. Yet most dispatchers, by and large, do not have "the bug," that almost addictive quality which beckons you to fly, which calls you to soar above the earth. That fundamental emotion is hardwired into a pilot's soul and cannot be loosed regardless of circumstance or aptitude. The presence of that emotion is about as close to fact as a perception can be.

Someone who possesses this quality is not going to maintain the same sense of interest and challenge from working as a dispatcher as one who does not. Despite the fundamental knowledge both positions share, a career dispatcher who enjoys the work is wired differently from a pilot. It is beneficial when empathy for one another's role in sharing operational control exists between the pilot and dispatcher, but I believe that the approach of a good dispatcher is aided by an ability to see things differently.

In particular, the role the dispatcher plays in safety, meteorological proficiency, and regulatory compliance when balanced with a regard to efficiency on the part of the company, is augmented by a different mindset than is normally nurtured by air crews. In my experience, I believe it is easier for a dispatcher to think like a pilot than vice versa. This is through no fault of the pilot, it's just increasingly evident that many have little idea as to what we really do and, in some cases, little appreciation as well. While pilots can and have made good dispatchers, I think that more often than not a pilot tends to approach duties on the desk in ways that may be better executed by one who holds dispatch responsibilities as primary motivation for continued employment in the field of aviation.

It's hard to shake "the bug," whether you have your feet on the ground or wish to be in the air. Yet if a pilot wishes to remain in the air, then it is there a pilot will, and should, stay.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Many moons after writing this originally, my opinion has not changed and has, in fact, been reinforced.
 
Kev said:
In particular, the role the dispatcher plays in safety, meteorological proficiency, and regulatory compliance when balanced with a regard to efficiency on the part of the company, is augmented by a different mindset than is normally nurtured by air crews. In my experience, I believe it is easier for a dispatcher to think like a pilot than vice versa.
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You must have never met a part 91 pilot. Nobody holds their hands.
 
Krieger said:
You must have never met a part 91 pilot. Nobody holds their hands.
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I'll second this and say that the same goes for most 135 Pilots. Most Dispatchers can't think like pilots (including the ones who are pilots) because we're not physically there in the aircraft working in the situation. I always tell people that Dispatchers need to think like Dispatchers which involves a much more proactive and almost speculative approach to situational awareness. Generally speaking there's not a pilot working as a 121 Crewmember who didn't get to that point in their career without Dispatching themselves for the majority of their flying life. This is not to say that all of them are good at it but for that matter we ALL know Dispatchers who aren't good at Dispatching. The long and short of it is that Dispatchers shouldn't expect to be doing any flying or thinking for the flight crew. At the end of the day what we do is essentially play a vital support role and the better you are at providing that support (whether you're a Dispatcher or a Pilot) the better you'll be at this job.
 
TaxiBack said:
What some of them will never tell you is they have 3 DUIs, or a serious heart disease , etc.....in other words IF they could be flying they would (SOME OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM).
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All the dispatchers I know with commercial ratings and 3 DUIs were already dispatchers when they racked them all up, and were done spending money on hours or living on cans of Alpo for a job that probably wasn't going to materialize. Same with the commercial rating heart attack crowd. Now that I think of it, perhaps they would all have been better off flying just for health alone! This job will make you smoke, drink, and cuss at your mother.
 
** Disclaimer: I have the bragging rights, despite my handle on this site, of not once being charged with a DUI. We're not even talking conviction here, we're talking not even charged. Not once, not ever! Have I "walked the line"? Abso-phuking-lutely! That's right, officer, right guy...wrong day!!! **

But on a serious note, please don't drink and drive. Actually, don't drink. You see, alcohol is what's known as a "gateway drug" that leads to harder things, such as a dispatcher license, or a graduate degree. It's just not worth it.....
 
You see, alcohol is what's known as a "gateway drug" that leads to harder things, such as a dispatcher license, or a graduate degree. It's just not worth it.....
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Much like Google is the gateway drug for internet porn...
 
From what I've gathered, starting pay at regionals is indeed bad, but you do make a good living once you get seniority and of course when and if you go onto the majors.

On top of that, there are tons more opportunities out there than just 121/Regionals.
 
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