A classic...

Excellent question, one we have all thought through as evidenced in the great replies. Everyone gets an A for theory.
I have a different take on this ... Forgive me Doug if this turns into a hijack ... not my intention.

Same scenerio ... suspected alcohol compromise.

Only difference you are flying for a small two person flight department, and there is no crew scheduling to call and if you are wrong it will cost you your job, and if you are right it could cost you your job ... How do you handle the other crewmember, how do you handle the principles that you are flying and they MUST get to the next destination as scheduled or loose an important deal.

Search deep, no text book answer here.

Jim
 
C650CPT said:
Excellent question, one we have all thought through as evidenced in the great replies. Everyone gets an A for theory.
I have a different take on this ... Forgive me Doug if this turns into a hijack ... not my intention.

Same scenario ... suspected alcohol compromise.

Only difference you are flying for a small two person flight department, and there is no crew scheduling to call and if you are wrong it will cost you your job, and if you are right it could cost you your job ... How do you handle the other crew member, how do you handle the principles that you are flying and they MUST get to the next destination as scheduled or loose an important deal.

Search deep, no text book answer here.

Jim
Click to expand...

If it could cost you our job either way, that would be tough. If you witnessed the drinking and it went past the 'rules' then you have to say no, I won't fly. But then again if it was "suspected" you probably didn't see it.

Can the plane be legally flown, single-pilot? If so, can you put him in the cockpit and make sure he does not touch the controls?

Self-imposed maintenance delay? What would happen if the wx actually called for a delay or cancel? They would have to think of something. Set up a conference call at FBO possibly? There has to be some options to deal with a delay of sorts in the event it wasn't alcohol related.
 
I'm down with delay, delay, delay. People make mistakes, and one of the easiest to make is having one too many on a fun overnight. If possible, I wouldn't get in the van in the first place. I'd ask Captain Rummy if I could talk to him in private, and tell him that his slip is showing. That would probably freak him out enough to call in sick, or at least come up with some delay for a few hours so that he could burn the rest of the stink out.

If we've already made it to the airport, I'd say do the same thing, but then we'd have to find a place for him to hide out. There's plenty of time to talk while bags are being unloaded, so I'd try to get him off to the side and say "Dude, I hate to say this, but you may thank me later: You smell like alcohol pretty bad, man. I really, really don't think you should try going through security. Maybe you can take the van back to the hotel for a few hours and call scheduling with a little 'food poisoning' action, if you know what I mean."

If he does it, fine. A career saved and an industries reputation preserved. If not, well, he's a big boy. I'm not going anywhere near security with him. I'll be a discreet 10 minutes behind. If he actually makes it through, I'm not going anywhere near the plane either. If it reaches that level, I'll just tell him that I'm just can't fly with him still smelling like alky. I'll do all the talking out of earshot of the gate, but I'll make it absolutely clear that if he dosen't call in sick, I will, and if the CP calls me about the sick call at an outstation, I'm going to spill the beans. That should be enough to make him pull the sickie.

In the '135' style scenario C650 described, I'd do the same thing. If I get canned for acting responsibly then I would take it as a good sign that I'm working for the wrong company. I would be more than happy to explain that on any future interview, as well as to the FAA if things get nasty.
 
:sarcasm: Whack the crewmember over the head with a crowbar. Then ask the driver to pull over. Dump the crewmembers body into a ravine and watch it float into the ocean. :sarcasm: end of problem.
 
Doug Taylor said:
For whoever's legal department reads this, this is a HYPOTHETICAL situation.

On the crew van to the airport, you notice that one of your crew members smells of alcohol... The crewmember was also five minutes late for pick up at the hotel and seems a little disoriented.

Keep in mind that this crewmember, in this situation, is going to do his or her best to deny intoxication and most likely resist any cursory efforts to investigate.

Walk us through the process of what you'd do as the captain (or as the FO for that matter).
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pretty much every post on this resurrected thread implies that the crewmember scenario is a FLIGHT crewmember. There are other crewmembers on most airline flights and they can also be a problem....
 
You'd be surprised how often this type of thing happens. I think most of the responses are pretty much on the mark. However, the one thing I would hold until needed as a last resort is to bring someone in that is up the chain of command.

Talk to the guy and get him to see the wisdom of just calling in sick or whatever. But once you make that first call to someone else then both the company and the pilot are on the hook for alchohol abuse treatment. The guy will be off the line and in a dry out facility for 3 months or so and then on the hook for monitoring for another couple of years. One misstep in that program and poof he's gone.

Keep the chief pilot and anyone else out of it for as long as possible. Now if the guy really is a boozer with a problem then you might want to make that call to scheduling or the chief pilot first.
 
In the longer run, one of the main jobs of the union is to maintain professional standards...

So, what assistance/remediation do they have to assist a member who no longer meets those standards? What obligation does the union have to notify the company about this person?
 
I would take the crewmember aside and tell them that I smell alcohol on them and that I don't care why they smell like alcohol, but that is unacceptable for reporting for duty. They could have stopped drinking more than 10 hours ago and have a BAC under .04 or they could have fallen in a swimming pool filled with Whiskey for all I care. They still smell like alcohol and if they want to disregard that, I feel that is unprofessional.
 
As a dispatcher, if an F/O calls me and said that his PIC was suspect, I would call my chief pilot, and do anything to insure that that airplane doesnt go anywhere until the C/P says its all ok.

One thing I can do is to call the departure airport tower and have them cancel their strip out of the computer, so if they call for clearance - no strip on file; it only takes about 2 mins to refile if it comes time to do so when the C/P is done talking to the crew.

If I cant get a hold of the C/P, then whoever the duty C/P is - however, that airplane isnt going anywhere until its sorted out, and people above my pay grade have been involved; this is something NOT to keep secret.

Could be he took a bigger swig of Listerine in the morning than usual; or not.
 
I would ask him how long he stayed at the bar after I left, knowing it couldn't have been long since it closed at 4:00 am and we had a 6:00 show!!!!!!

Seriously,
I would just try to have a conversation with him. I know it may be different in the 121 world, but in my 135 world I fly with the same people all the time. I would feel very comfortable just confronting them as a friend first and a co-worker second.
 
dc3flyer said:
I would ask him how long he stayed at the bar after I left, knowing it couldn't have been long since it closed at 4:00 am and we had a 6:00 show!!!!!!

Seriously,
I would just try to have a conversation with him. I know it may be different in the 121 world, but in my 135 world I fly with the same people all the time. I would feel very comfortable just confronting them as a friend first and a co-worker second.
Click to expand...

bump,

definately, I'd try to get the guy to go back to the hotel and call in sick
btw this thread is unkillable
 
Doug Taylor said:
Here's the kicker, if you suspect a person is under the influence and you knowingly let him onto the aircraft, you're probably going to get fired too, at best, offered a chance to 'resign'.



But you've got to be 110% convinced of the situation.
Click to expand...

So this may sound naive, but I haven't spent alot of time around heavy drinkers, what if I am totally off the mark, He's not drunk maybe just a little bit of a wierd personality. What I'm getting at is what happens if I follow all of the advice given here just to have the guy pass a breathalizer? Is the company gonna come down on me? AM I going to get put on everyones do not fly list?
 
First of all...everyone slow your roll...

First thing first...ask what type of alcohol he drank
Next, find out where you can attain some of the same alcohol
Then, find a place where you and Capt. Alchy can duke it out for the next 8 hours and pound away
Repeat as necessary

But in all seriousness...just beat him up...with the injuries he sustains he'd be forced to go to the hospital vs. going to the airport.

Okay okay okay..enough kidding....

But how can anyone try and fly a plane drunk? I was on painkillers one time and thought i'd be smart and ride a motorized scooter! At speeds of 20 mph i had to explain to my doc again why i'm in there. The guy would probably be tripping balls if he tried to fly a plane drunk....

Geez guys...leave all the drunk flying to the sims alright (hrmm...i've heard of this one time with some retiring [age 60] pilots)
 
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