3enginejock
Well-Known Member
There is a full language TA but the rank and file dont have access to it yet. The 9L/XJ/9E MEC's have to vote on it first then it will come to everyone to view.
9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary
- Thread starter sherpa
- Start date
Saabomatic
Well-Known Member
So, I've been thinkning about this ta and I'm trying to understand why the jnc would agree to not apply the 4 hr minimum reserve guarantee to 9L saab outstations. It makes me think that management has a grudge against colgan saab outstation pilots. Moreover, it seems really odd that management would agree to the 4 hr minimum guarantee rule for everyone except 9L outstation pilots. I'm just trying to figure out what the thought process was at the negotiating table when they decided to discriminate against saab outstations.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
The company blatantly would not agree to it. That and the grandfather rates.
The JNC offered to "buy" it from other portions of the contract, but Corp. said NO. N-O.
Bottom line is a deal was made that is lightyears ahead of anything Colgan pilots could do in our own Section 2 negotiations and secures gains and job protections for our Mesaba and Pinnacle brothers and sisters.
Saabomatic
Well-Known Member
I see. I have heard from my fellow 9L pilots that if we just waited a while longer we would have gotten mesaba's contract. I just got an email saying that the mec's approved the ta. I really wish the mec would have voted it down so we could have gotten XJ's contract. I think XJ's contract is a million times better than this ta (for colgan pilots at least).
The Juice
Well-Known Member
Colgan pilots getting MSA's contract could have happened but not in the way many Colgan pilots invision it to happen, for example....
Colgan MEC votes down TA and says "We will wait for MSA's contract." PNCL Corp says, "Ok Colgan, we are now disolving the Colgan certificate and moving Colgan's plane's to the MSA certificate since Colgan does not have scope. But dont worry Colgan pilots, we will give your pref hiring for Mesaba to fly your planes."
It is called "scope" boys and girls and the most important thing in any contract. Colgan is the one without it and at risk for the whipsap without it. We needed scope and we got it!!
Oh Jesus Christ guys.
Yea you could have waited for msa's contract. Got two words for ya, Whipsaw. Better yet section 1, Scope. I mean this without any disrespect, but man you guys that close minded and ilinformed? 38% increase in pay and work rule improvements mean anything to you guys?
Yea you could have waited for msa's contract. Got two words for ya, Whipsaw. Better yet section 1, Scope. I mean this without any disrespect, but man you guys that close minded and ilinformed? 38% increase in pay and work rule improvements mean anything to you guys?
sorrygottarunway
Well-Known Member
Looks like they agreed to the TA! Congrats to our jnc for getting it done- now Seggy, get your shaggy self over to STL so we can get our PT done, I need to go home! 
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Wow, seriously? Moving 50 airplanes from a pilot group with no contract is easy-squeezy.
You haven't been at Pinnacle long enough to know that we'll step over that dollar (training costs) to save a dime ("giving" Colgan pilots the Mesaba contract).
Saabomatic
Well-Known Member
Hey nc1982, maybe you might be getting a 38% pay increase but my pay increase is only 50 cents. WOO HOO!!! (Sarcasm)
Tram
Well-Known Member
So.. You're hoping a better contract than you could have ever achieved as a sole company would have been voted down because you HEARD a rumor from other pilots that you would get Mesaba's contract? Wow..
While we're talking about things we've... "heard." I heard that 9L outstation basing is on it's way out, that's why they didn't mess with the 4 hour min day deal.. Is it true? Beats me, but that's what I.. heard..
Good to see you still have no idea what you're talking about... You think it would be hard for them to get rid of ALL your airplanes and leave you guys sitting? You're dreaming.. You guys have zero protection right now.. None.. Zip.. Zero.. You are a company with no contract.. You have no protection..
Actually, no I'm not getting a 38% raise. Matter of fact, I got bumped to fly the Saab in LGA. Know what else, our MEC chairman came into our class today after they voted on the TA and said for us guys getting bumped to LGA on the Saab we will only get the grandfathered Mesaba rates for 1 year, starting March 1st. Wanna know another thing, and this one might hurt a bit, once all this is sorted out and around this time next year, the saab will make up 1/8th of all combined aircrafts between XJ, 9L, and 9E. So let me get some of your guys logic, you wanna hold this thing up because your pissed you get paid less than a XJ guy on the same aircraft that will essentially, be almost gone in a year?
As a Mesaba guy, being junior, and being on reserve, I gain pretty much nothing in this TA. Matter fact, I probably lose a little cause some of the reserve rules are getting worse for us Mesaba guys. I'm getting bumped off the highest paying equipment on property, but you know what, with this new TA, I won't be pitted against a Colgan guy, or a Pinnacle guy. The company can't take one pilot group and pit it against another group working for the same company. That in itself is enough for me to vote yes. I would say do some homework and go to the road shows, but from reading on here, looks like some of you guys already made up your mind.
"I don't care." Sorry had to bring it back.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Really? 'Cause the furloughed guys and the current and qualified Saab drivers that would be moved onto other equipment at Mesaba might have something to say about that. Mesaba is already overstaffed, has guys still on furlough and more that are about to lose thier equipment. That plus the stack of applications on the desk in HR likely wouldn't have had them breaking a sweat as they broke out the Swingline and the liquid paper. Pinnacle has long since not cared about training costs. We've been playing that angle for YEARS in our contract negotiations. They don't care. With no scope to protect you in a merger (other than ALPA merger policy), odds are damn good those Colgan guys that will see upgrade this year thanks to the JCBA would likely not see upgrade for 3-4 years off if they just "waited for Mesaba's contract."
Tram
Well-Known Member
I don't care.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Kell - this guy, as far as I can tell, isn't even going to be able to vote on the contract.. FWIW...
You guys are funny. I am much more educated on this then any of you "care" to realize. Let's talk about that "caring". Who cares more? The guy who is saying that they actually don't care about 1/8th of the total company or the guys who are actually trying and hoping for the best possible outcome for all parties invovled??? :crazy: Yet I'm the uneducated one... You guys are ridiculous. I heard for months that we had to read between every line on this contract and seek any loopholes and when there are giant glaring loopholes that are brought up we are told to silence ourselves about it. Interesting...
Mesaba guys shouldn't be happy about this grandfathered rate. As was mentioned above they are going to lose that rate eventually and not only have no gain but an actual loss over their current book.
4 hour min day carve out? Why in the world would you really think the company would demand this stay in the contract if they weren't planning on it mattering? If they had plans to condense all the outstations into one base then they would use that as leverage on their end and say ok we will give all pilots min day if we do min 10 days off a month. They can easily staff LGA, BOS, and ALB to <25 pilots a base and none would get the min day pay. What do you think will happen? They are going to magically say ok we will make one base just so you all can get min day even though we "had to have it" in the contract?
Look who "doesn't care" now...
Mesaba guys shouldn't be happy about this grandfathered rate. As was mentioned above they are going to lose that rate eventually and not only have no gain but an actual loss over their current book.
4 hour min day carve out? Why in the world would you really think the company would demand this stay in the contract if they weren't planning on it mattering? If they had plans to condense all the outstations into one base then they would use that as leverage on their end and say ok we will give all pilots min day if we do min 10 days off a month. They can easily staff LGA, BOS, and ALB to <25 pilots a base and none would get the min day pay. What do you think will happen? They are going to magically say ok we will make one base just so you all can get min day even though we "had to have it" in the contract?
Look who "doesn't care" now...
