I wouldn't worry too much about it. This thread is mostly an academic exercise. Even if every 9L pilot votes against the TA, the support of XJ and 9E will pass it.
9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary
- Thread starter sherpa
- Start date
I wouldn't worry too much about it. This thread is mostly an academic exercise. Even if every 9L pilot votes against the TA, the support of XJ and 9E will pass it.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
For the life of me I cant understand why anyone would vote no on this thing. Mesaba is the only party that even has a reason to vote no since they are not getting much, but even they seem cool about it.
If your a Colgan or Pinnacle pilot your getting huge gains. We are getting a contract that we would not have dreamed of prior to Pinnacle buying Mesaba. Do you guys honestly think we could have done better on our own?
If your a Colgan or Pinnacle pilot your getting huge gains. We are getting a contract that we would not have dreamed of prior to Pinnacle buying Mesaba. Do you guys honestly think we could have done better on our own?
ILLpilot
5-Striper
Depends on what your version of "better" is. Everybody is going to have a different opinion about it based on how it will affect them first.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Everyone needs to stop looking at better as in this second and better in the future..
Sure, most of the FO's in the regional business could go get a job at their local police department and get a raise - today.. However, the top out pay is well below that of pretty junior captain at a regional..
Short-sightedness is killer..
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I'm gonna clear something up real quick. You DO NOT, NEVER HAVE, and NEVER WILL HAVE 2 hour min pay/ day. What you have is Scheduled block or better, with original pay credit protection. Your reserve period is paid out at 2 hours, If you fly less then you are protected back to your 2 hour pay. Under the current system, if you volunteer to come in and fly 1 leg blocked at 1:15, you are only "supposed" to get 1:15. I'll repeat, COLGAN DOES NOT HAVE ANY DUTY RIGS!
Minimum day pay, is pay for less than 10 days off, is 3:45 in addition to your block
The ONLY reference you have to ANY SORT OF PAY "RULES" is a memo that came out 2 chief pilots ago, and was some sort of a mix of like 13 other memos that had come out prior to that. As it stands right now, the company can elect not to pay you 2 hours minimum pay, and guess what, there is nothing you can do about it. We have just come to expect 2 hours, because that is the minimum pay for a scheduled 12 hour reserve period.
If they decided to change the "rules" again, its up to them, and their free will, but I'm guessing you haven't been through the "pay rule musical chair" game here yet, where you loose one pay rule for another as they try to figure out the way to pay out the least money possible. I recall 4 year ago when the company thought that they were paying out too much MX cancellation money, and too much WX cancellation money... so if your day got canceled for wx or mx you got paid squat. We had no recourse, we simply lost money.
Joe was here back when that stuff was happening. The new FO's have been pretty lucky in that the only real "tit for tat" pay play the company has pulled is trading a vacation day to get MX pay back (again).
Im guessing you don't like the 5 hr credit bump for months with training so you don't loose your opportunity to go above 75 hrs due to a training event... or the 21 hr vacation pay out rather than 17.5 As a saab FO that could be close to $400 a year. that alone makes up almost 45% of the pay you "lost" by not getting another $1 an hour.
Small changes in Hourly pay with no other changes to support them end up making a very small difference in your w2 at the end of the year. It would take an 11% increase in pay at the second year level to make you an additional 2k/yr before taxes... after taxes that big 11% raise you fought for is only going to net you close to $1700... It's just not worth fighting over.
Your rules as a reserve pilot will get a lot better, with early release times etc.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
I have flown, and have seen multiple 4 day pairings that begin with one leg, that credit well under 2 hours.
On Tuesday im scheduled to fly 1 leg back to base. 1:34credit. Under the new TA that would be worth 4hrs.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I reaaly hope everybody goes to the road shows. How can you make an informed vote if you don't even know what your current rules are?
Rob that was a perfect example, single leg start and single leg finish days will be worth so much more.
Rob that was a perfect example, single leg start and single leg finish days will be worth so much more.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
It's also the night flight. I sit in the hotel all day long until 630pm, then fly back. All for 1:34 of credit.
Tram
Well-Known Member
At Corpex we used to have a run - MQY - OWB. If left MQY at like 7:15am, early enough to meet the crew in OWB for the first flight out, then off to the hotel until around 8pm when the last flight of the day came in, and you flew back to MQY.. we had guys getting jobs in OWB to pass the time..
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Per diem should be tied to duty time. I haven't read section 3 yet, so I can't so for sure. Assuming it is, day trips would be protected with per diem (it's like that now under 9E's current contract), and even ready reserve would get per diem. Our current contract says "flight duty," so we don't get per diem for ready reserve under the 1999 agreement. TA fixes that as well. This would also give you per diem for high speeds (which are contracually the same as a long day trip). Just keep in mind anything that starts and ends in domicile in the same duty period is gonna be taxable per diem.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
There is per diem at Mesaba for day trips as well. I don't see why we'd go backwards on that. Maybe it's time we all just waited for the road shows in mid-late jan.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Waiting for the road shows is a good idea, but there could be some benefits to a thread like this one if one wants to make the effort. For me, this thread has me wanting to read the actual language, discuss issues I don't fully understand with my reps, and most of all... it is giving me a growing list of questions to potentially ask at a road show.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
Matt,
As others have said, you seem to not understand the Colgan pay policy and I ask that you take more of an effort to read the TA before forming an opinion on it. There is no min 2 hour pay at Colgan, never has. I think others have done a good job explaining the process to you but if you need for info on it I will be glad to explain it.
Also in regards to the no 4 hour min pay at outstations. Many outstation guys are upset about this but I can assure you they would be more upset if having a min 4 hour pay led to PCL Corp closing outstation basing because it now becomes too expensive to have with the min 4 hour pay. Outstation basing is probably on its way out, forcing min pay will do just that. What will all those PQI and BHB guys do then? The senior guys would not know what to do if they spent one night away from the house and had to pack a bag
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
We had a guy get the call today from B6. 2007 hire, upgraded in 2009, gone by the end of 2010.
Apparently he was a former ramper with b6.
Tram
Well-Known Member
ILLpilot
5-Striper
I agree with this. I also agree that the Memphis braintrust could very well run this whole operation into the ground within five years (as has been done at other airlines). Short-sighted, or far-sighted...seems like a roll of the dice either way.