WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
It's funny I was thinking the same thing. A lot of the guys whining probably don't any way. Educational for them non the less.
9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary
- Thread starter sherpa
- Start date
It's funny I was thinking the same thing. A lot of the guys whining probably don't any way. Educational for them non the less.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
LOL Making the youtube vid all the more relevant.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
Tram
Well-Known Member
Wow.. Now that is hilarious..
It has nothing to do with me specifically. I'm not going to be on second year FO pay in 5 years but the principle still stands. Not to mention all your facts you had pointed out are incorrect. Year one and two average to about a 2.50 raise, not 10. Nor is a 50 cent raise near peak pay on the current rates. And the same argument prevails, to which no one has an answer to, that if the pinnacle guys were told they were going to get less than current mesaba guys for the same equipment it would be a no vote across the board. Also need to mention that the current colgan rates are also blended and they were never adjusted when the q came on property. They are from when the 1900 was here so they are lower than should be expected from the start.
Tram
Well-Known Member
I'll answer that - based on my thoughts..
If someone said..
"We're going to pay you $100/hour and you'll get paid for 10 hours a month.."
and then another company said..
"We're going to pay you $35/hour and you'll get paid for 45 hours a month"
I'd gladly go with the $35/hour..
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
Tram
Well-Known Member
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
The Saab FO rates were brought up to match the Q400 FO rates when the new rates were presented. Yes we had the 1900 back then, but the 1900 was already in the steps of being phased out, and had nothing to do with the pay rates for FO's. You as a saab FO wanted that blended rate, otherwise you would have been making $23/hr as a 2nd year fo. Instead you ended up making more than a 9E 2nd year CRJ-200 fo. I didn't see them going down the war path over that. They were fighting for work rules, and yes pay increases.. but the Junior FO rates were not what they were fighting for.
Let me ask you, what are you willing to give up for say an additional $2-3/hr? Are you willing to give up the 4 hr min day to make MAYBE an additional $150 a month before taxes? IMHO, it's not worth it. Your overall pay will be better with the new contract, and rather then fighting only for dollars per hour, now you get many more ways to supplement your income.
In a few years there will no longer be a "grandfathered" rate, just like the Q's will finally hit the contract pay scale.
To answer your question, Pinnacle FO's were offered less than Colgan FO's, and that was not the reason why they voted the contract down. They voted down the contract because of the work rule language in TA1 I believe. i never once saw somebody saying," I'm voting it down because a colgan FO is making more than me"
Let me ask you, what are you willing to give up for say an additional $2-3/hr? Are you willing to give up the 4 hr min day to make MAYBE an additional $150 a month before taxes? IMHO, it's not worth it. Your overall pay will be better with the new contract, and rather then fighting only for dollars per hour, now you get many more ways to supplement your income.
In a few years there will no longer be a "grandfathered" rate, just like the Q's will finally hit the contract pay scale.
To answer your question, Pinnacle FO's were offered less than Colgan FO's, and that was not the reason why they voted the contract down. They voted down the contract because of the work rule language in TA1 I believe. i never once saw somebody saying," I'm voting it down because a colgan FO is making more than me"
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Kel man, If you really want to get on with B6, just apply with American next year :insane:
My line is, I don't want to go to CAL, DAL doesn't have the bases I want... Really right now, American would be my first choice if they start hiring again.. But I'm still not 100%
I have had an on /off again side job, and I may look at making that more a full time deal. I wish he had part time flying lines, as I would jump all over that!
I will say this about the contract. If we vote it down, the company is fully going to run us all ragged with the current staffing model, and we won't be able to do a thing about it. We will all have to go to the table individually. I can promise you, you wont see the pay rates or work rules if that happens.
Your call.. but I would take the best contract we could expect to get...
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I answered this already, but you just didn't like my answer, I guess. I would still vote YES on this, even if we saw a couple of bucks less an hour than the Mesaba guys at a pay rate that will either a) not exist in two years or b) be limited to about 50 guys. Why? The soft pay and work rules more than make up for the uncertainty of voting it down and seeing what happens. I've already demonstrated in this very thread how the soft pay and rules would affect me right now. To shoot that down for a couple of bucks more an hour would be insane. I'd actually make LESS money at the end of the day.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Forget it Steve. He just doesn't get it.
The summary sounds pretty damn good. If the actual language is solid, we'd all be fools to vote no.
Comair 100ER
Well-Known Member
Would it be a good time to get hired by Colgan...er Mesaba? Sounds like the upgrade time will go up a bit.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Today's golden child is tomorrow's broke piggy.. Going to a company for the "upgrade time" is quasi-foolish..
jynxyjoe
Queso King
How does that have anything to do with the question that was even asked?
Still here hu?
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
I think if you question is:
Why are the Saab FO rate different? Because they are now being split individually and they can't expect the current Mesaba FO's to take a pay cut. However those rates are half Avro and the company will not agree to that. Therefore Grandfathered Rates for the Mesaba guys are the solution. Sorry thats the way it is.
or maybe your question it:
Why is the second year pay raise not as proportional of a raise? Because the company has chosen to adopt Mesaba's first year pay which is the highest in the regional industry. So when you are on the lowest paying position your raise second year will not be as much.
or your question could be:
Why is it ONLY averaging 3 dollars per year raise on the saab? Because if you average those years no one else has rates that good on comparable aircraft.
And if this doesn't answer it then I don't know what to tell you:
Your WHAT IF Pinnacle guys being paid less doesnt hold water. The Mesaba jet FO's on a split scale were being paid less than average just as the saab FO's were above. With the new split rates ALL the jet rates go up to were they should have been. Unfortunately the saab rates can't piggy back their way up and we can't have current people on an aircraft losing money so that is why there is a new saab rate and a grandfathered rate.
Actually the 1900 rates were phased out and the current rates are a saab/Q blend.
Look are what you ARE getting. NOT what others have.You could have went to Mesaba or some other regional if you were that upset about the rates. You chose to go to one of the lowest paying regionals in the industry. Now you are upset about wages AND work rules that put you are the top.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I think that covers it, in every fashion and in every direction. Patience and intelligence triumphs over faux ignorance.
JrsyGuy, your persistence has only been rewarded with intellectual shaming. Perhaps it's time to quit. To pretend any longer will make the readers on this forum question your literacy, since we already know your motives.