9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language
- Thread starter v1valarob
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Did a quick read through, and it looks like I might only have a couple of clarification questions. It's there in black and white in the implementation LOA that the guys getting displaced will fall under the OLD CBA and still retain their displacement rights. That'll make a lot of guys happy. There's a group of us (current) MEM guys planning on getting together next Thursday to tear the thing apart and bounce ideas off of each other. No time set, but I think we were thinking of a nice family atmosphere that would encourage thinking......like the Saucer. 
Doing it on Thurs gets it done before the road show on Friday and everyone will have it fresh in their minds for the next day.
Doing it on Thurs gets it done before the road show on Friday and everyone will have it fresh in their minds for the next day.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
It's called "leg values" for us right now. Our pay is based on leg values (heretofore known as SATs). You have to fly SAT + 15 minutes to get paid any more. If your leg is blocked at 1:45 and the SAT is 1:40, you get paid 1:40, even if you spent 10 minutes de-icing. In the summer, the SATs are usually more than what you fly, so you get paid more. In the winter, you lose the shirt off your back. Some call it de-icing for dollars, but not at 9E. The big coup for us is what happens on a new pairing that has no SAT? Right now, we get paid what we fly, which is KILLING the guys in JFK. BUF-JFK is blocked somewhere in the 1:50 range. If you get ground stopped in BUF, you'll probably hit block. If not, you may only fly 1:20, and you'll lose 30 minutes of pay. Under the new TA, if there is no SAT, the marketing block acts as the SAT. So, you'd get paid at LEAST 1:50 no matter what.
Clear as mud? Think of the SAT as your "block" in "block or better."
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
So a 50min flight that is routinely done in 30 minutes, will be paid at the 30 minutes. If we do it in 50 we get 50, if we do it in 20 we get 30.
That's going to suck on the Saab side out of Dulles. My 85hr scheduled time normally ends up being around 65 at the end of the month because UAL likes to block flights with a long taxi, a route with no direct clearances, an instrument approach to a missed and then a landing.
Interesting.
That's going to suck on the Saab side out of Dulles. My 85hr scheduled time normally ends up being around 65 at the end of the month because UAL likes to block flights with a long taxi, a route with no direct clearances, an instrument approach to a missed and then a landing.
Interesting.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Ouch. That's makin' sure you're on time for the DOT regs.
I thought we had stuff in JFK way over blocked, but that's just ridiculous to plan that you're gonna have the worst case scenario on every flight. Might as well toss a divert in there while you're at it.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Well... I think all those times will be based off SAT (average times) but I haven't read the language.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
To my understanding you are correct. SAT is just a changing number that is recalculated every few months based on how long certain leg values are worth. Colgan already does this. If IAH-CLL is blocked at :45 credit and everyone underblocks it for a few months you will see that block lowered to :43 or whatever the new average is in the coming months. This is why flying fast on every leg just doesnt take money out of your pocket but every pilot flying that flight in months to come.
Fly charted power and taxi at an approriate pace.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
To my understanding yes because this time is based on the schedule that Mainline constructs. I do know that these values are audited by ALPA, as told to me by a JNC member.
"SAT" is similar to "Leg Values" at PCL but the 15 minute for free thing is gone!!
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
So fly the SAAB at 800 ITT... I'd bet my shirt that there is something in the CFM or a R&S directing us to fly at 800 ITT to take care of the engines when operationally feasible.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Im finding it hard to believe about UA adjusting our block times based on average. Im just going from personal experience that over blocking or even blocking the Saab IAD flights is a worthless effort. You might block HPN-IAD, but then your next leg is to CHO and it destroys going over block for the day. My 2 day trip that ended yesterday had a credit of 10:30 and we blocked it at 8:30. 2 hours is a hell of alot to make up.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
That's assuming the SAT and the marketing block are the same. Currently at 9E, they can vary depending on the season. If that keeps up, what I said above counts for the JCBA as well. Regardless, you won't get paid less than you actually fly. That's more than I can say for 9E current book....
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
This is another example of why it is good that the TA has this policy of leg by leg block or better....
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Indeedy. Looking at the implementation section of the contract, I don't know how they are going to be able to do alot of this stuff with Colgans current version of crewtrac. I'm hoping they upgrade software quick.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Alright this is starting to get confusing. By marketing block you mean the Cal/Delta/United block times that people see on their ticket right? This SAT stuff is confusing, I understand yall had it at 9E, but does this TA have normal block by leg like most airlines? All this SAT stuff is clouding my understanding of it...
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Email PNCLJNC@alpa.org and they will give you the answer. Or call the Tenzometer to get the clarification!
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
At 9E, when you look on your schedule, there's a "block time" listing, which is your scheduled out and in times. The "leg value" (which to me seems to be the same as SATs in the JCBA) is your "credit," which is normally different than the scheduled block. MOST of the time it varies by minutes. In the winter if you're doing something like DTW-ERI, it's gonna be scheduled longer in order to accomodate de-icing. If it weren't, the flight be would late by DOT rules most of the time. The leg value/SAT doesn't change since it's based off an average of the past year (or 6 months in the new case). So, you're crediting LESS than the scheduled block. Under 9E's current contract, you get hosed unless you fly leg value + 15 minutes, then your clock starts again. The JCBA fixes this issue. If you fly over the SAT (which if you're de-icing is almost a certainty), you get paid whatever you fly over that amount. It may be less than the block in minues the block out time, though.
Example:
Dep Dest Out In Block Credit
DTW ERI 1200 115 1:15 1:00
The above leg would have a block time of 1:15, but the credit would be an hour based off the history of the leg flown on average. If you fly more than an 1:00, you get paid whatever you fly. If you fly 00:50, get paid 1:00. Even our PBS results have different results for scheduled block and credit.
I'm not sure how other airlines do it, but I know that scheduled block times at 9E are historically longer in the winter than in the summer to account for de-icing and winds. Would make sense for it to just be the same scheduled block year round, but like I said, in the winter, it would make most of the flights habitually late except for maybe out of MEM, ATL and IAH. Then they'll just cancel them if they have to de-ice.