91 sim recurrency if you're already typed?

DE727UPS

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Just wonder what the training was like? I'm getting requaled on the 757 part 91 just for fun mostly and maybe something else if the stars align. Will see if the 757 fire retardant tanker thing ever happens. Just read on another page that there is no box to check with the FAA. I never thought of that. Also was looking at my schedule and see "progressive checkride" mentioned towards the end. Never heard of that term. Maybe it's one of those things where at the end of the course you've covered everything and checked the boxes and you're just done. No formal checkride.
 
DE727UPS said:
Just wonder what the training was like? I'm getting requaled on the 757 part 91 just for fun mostly and maybe something else if the stars align. Will see if the 757 fire retardant tanker thing ever happens. Just read on another page that there is no box to check with the FAA. I never thought of that. Also was looking at my schedule and see "progressive checkride" mentioned towards the end. Never heard of that term. Maybe it's one of those things where at the end of the course you've covered everything and checked the boxes and you're just done. No formal checkride.
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You're correct. Progressive check means they evaluate you throughout your training. The training covers 61.58 if I remember the number correctly.
 
You have a choice. Progressive check or stand alone checkride for a 61.58. In progressive check your being evaluated the entire time. But if you nail steep turns day one you don’t have to do them again. Standalone is training for first two sim and checkride on sim 3. Standalone is better if you’re rusty. Progressive you can only fail two items before your into extra training.


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DE727UPS said:
Just wonder what the training was like? I'm getting requaled on the 757 part 91 just for fun mostly and maybe something else if the stars align. Will see if the 757 fire retardant tanker thing ever happens. Just read on another page that there is no box to check with the FAA. I never thought of that. Also was looking at my schedule and see "progressive checkride" mentioned towards the end. Never heard of that term. Maybe it's one of those things where at the end of the course you've covered everything and checked the boxes and you're just done. No formal checkride.
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The FAA has kind of come down on 91 lately and now require a "checkride" (oral) and all when it used to just be training only. So I'm guessing that you will be trained/checked as you go.
 
I wasn't given an option between progressive or standalone other than it was suggested I do the longer course since it's been three years since I was current. Saw a comment at another site that there is no ICARA or 8710 form for this type of training. Will find out in a week I guess. I was wondering if it would at least count as a 61.56 flight review. At first I thought no way cause it's in a 757 sim and I need a flight review for SEL. Looking at 61.56 though it just says "aircraft", so maybe it will work. I'll see if the instructor will sign me off for a flight review.
 
DE727UPS said:
I wasn't given an option between progressive or standalone other than it was suggested I do the longer course since it's been three years since I was current. Saw a comment at another site that there is no ICARA or 8710 form for this type of training. Will find out in a week I guess. I was wondering if it would at least count as a 61.56 flight review. At first I thought no way cause it's in a 757 sim and I need a flight review for SEL. Looking at 61.56 though it just says "aircraft", so maybe it will work. I'll see if the instructor will sign me off for a flight review.
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Nope. Definitely no 8710 or IACRA for a recurrent. It should coung for a 61.65.
 
DE727UPS said:
I wasn't given an option between progressive or standalone other than it was suggested I do the longer course since it's been three years since I was current. Saw a comment at another site that there is no ICARA or 8710 form for this type of training. Will find out in a week I guess. I was wondering if it would at least count as a 61.56 flight review. At first I thought no way cause it's in a 757 sim and I need a flight review for SEL. Looking at 61.56 though it just says "aircraft", so maybe it will work. I'll see if the instructor will sign me off for a flight review.
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There’s no 8710 because you are already typed. You’re doing a 61.58 proficiency check. It does count as a flight review per 61.56 (d)(1). The flight review covers everything on your license. For example if I get a flight review in a glider I’m good to go for airplanes. I don’t know how your training provider works but at CAE and FSI the standard for 91 is progressive checks but you can request a standalone check if you want to do it that way. If you don’t say anything you get a progressive check.


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DE727UPS said:
I wasn't given an option between progressive or standalone other than it was suggested I do the longer course since it's been three years since I was current. Saw a comment at another site that there is no ICARA or 8710 form for this type of training. Will find out in a week I guess. I was wondering if it would at least count as a 61.56 flight review. At first I thought no way cause it's in a 757 sim and I need a flight review for SEL. Looking at 61.56 though it just says "aircraft", so maybe it will work. I'll see if the instructor will sign me off for a flight review.
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Just about any training event counts for a flight review, if properly logged and this certainly does as described in 61.56(d)(1). The record of your 61.58 counts without any additional paperwork. Even the training for a tailwheel endorsement would count, but needs the 61.56 endorsement signed off.
 
DE727UPS said:
I wasn't given an option between progressive or standalone other than it was suggested I do the longer course since it's been three years since I was current. Saw a comment at another site that there is no ICARA or 8710 form for this type of training. Will find out in a week I guess. I was wondering if it would at least count as a 61.56 flight review. At first I thought no way cause it's in a 757 sim and I need a flight review for SEL. Looking at 61.56 though it just says "aircraft", so maybe it will work. I'll see if the instructor will sign me off for a flight review.
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If you are part of the wings program on faasafety.gov, you can just get signed off there for your flight review after recurrent.
 
Thanks for the info. As a CFI I should know all this but I don't think I've ever done one and only ever signed a couple off. I was always getting another rating or working under 135 or 121. It's weird having to worry about that now. And letting my medical slide. I'll be third class in in a few months. My AME was killed in a helo crash and getting a physical is something that's hard to think about still.
 
Inverted25 said:
There’s no 8710 because you are already typed. You’re doing a 61.58 proficiency check. It does count as a flight review per 61.56 (d)(1). The flight review covers everything on your license. For example if I get a flight review in a glider I’m good to go for airplanes. I don’t know how your training provider works but at CAE and FSI the standard for 91 is progressive checks but you can request a standalone check if you want to do it that way. If you don’t say anything you get a progressive check.


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Careful with this generalization…for years FSI was progressive-only. At least in the CJ program, they have so few TCEs left on staff that progressives now are rare even if you request them.
 
pwttogfk said:
Careful with this generalization…for years FSI was progressive-only. At least in the CJ program, they have so few TCEs left on staff that progressives now are rare even if you request them.
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Interesting, CAE just hired one guy who’s career aim is TCE. Will see how they get on…
 
pwttogfk said:
Careful with this generalization…for years FSI was progressive-only. At least in the CJ program, they have so few TCEs left on staff that progressives now are rare even if you request them.
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In the Gulfstream programs at FSI it’s all progressive for 91. I’m here right now. I don’t know about the smaller airframes. I know when we get our training letters it says in bold print that all checks are progressive unless you request a standalone check. Part 135 is different. They are still doing standalone checks


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How long have you been noncurrent on the airplane? A duration of lack of currency changes required amount of training. If you have been out for long enough, you would not be eligible for a progressive anyways if it has been five years, you basically are going for a full initial. They require required maneuvers and checking are listed in the ACS.
 
Less than 4 years. I'm doing seat support for another guys initial PIC plus all the instructors recurrents (16 hrs) Then I have 8 hours in the sim after that. They had a short course and a long course. They said I needed the long course.
 
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DE727UPS said:
Less than 4 years.
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Depending on the training house you are going to, they will have a requalification timeline/table. I don’t know the specifics for the 757 program however, you would likely need additional training and sims. This means at the end of the recurring you will basically have an oral plus a check ride. The check ride will run similar to how it went when you were 121 you will be able to train proficiency on two items or or two tries.
 
DE727UPS said:
Less than 4 years. I'm doing seat support for another guys initial PIC plus all the instructors recurrents (16 hrs) Then I have 8 hours in the sim after that. They had a short course and a long course. They said I needed the long course.
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I see the edit- yes the long course will basically end up being an “initial” prior experience course.

You will cover the 8900 required knowledge areas, single engine operation + items required by the ACS. You’ll do steep turns, unusual attitudes etc. The seat support can’t help you in those. Normal stalls + high altitude stall demo, emergency descent and single engine stuff. Loss of primary flight display etc.

Pretty similar to 121
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I see the edit- yes the long course will basically end up being an “initial” prior experience course.

You will cover the 8900 required knowledge areas, single engine operation + items required by the ACS. You’ll do steep turns, unusual attitudes etc. The seat support can’t help you in those. Normal stalls + high altitude stall demo, emergency descent and single engine stuff. Loss of primary flight display etc.

Pretty similar to 121
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I noticed they don't have me scheduled for an oral. Would I not need one since I'm typed? Also, they have circling in the syllabus but at UPS we had to have VFR mins to circle. My type rating says "circling only VMC". Can that restriction be removed if I demonstrate circling during the course? Not that I really care. Just curious. They may choose not to train me on that based on the limitation on my certificate.
 
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