91.213(d)

9

92128

New Member
I have been trying to find the answer to this question for some time now and have received no really impressive responses (including from the guy who conducted my CPL oral) If you have any insight, please let me know.

91.213 (d)(2)(i): "Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated."

My question is: where do I find this? As in, where do I look to find out if the inoperative piece of equipment is "part of the VFR-day type certification..." for my particualr airplane?

Please do not reply "91.205". That is not what this is referring to. That would be 91.213(d)(2)(iii).

In reading the AC on the subject, it looks like this info is available in a TCDS (type certificate data sheet) available from the FSDO or a certified mechanic. I visited the faa.gov site and found the TCDS for my aircraft (Piper Arrow). It was no help at all.

Thanks for your help!
 
92128 said:
91.213 (d)(2)(i): "Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated."
Click to expand...

What it means is that whatever was required for an airplane to be certified for VFR Day flight at the time the aircraft was certified is part of the required equipment. There is no easy answer to your question. Some of the requirements will be listed on the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), but more importantly, that document will tell you what set of regulations the aircraft was certified under, such as CAR 3 or Part 23. To know for sure, you'd need to know how those regulations read when the aircraft was certified.
 
As tgrayson pointed out you must know if the airplane was certified under CAR part 3 or FAR part 23, and when this was done.
As found in FAA v. Nielsen not knowing the regulation or saying "the mechanic told me it was okay" does not wash.
http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3755.PDF
If you are flying an older airplane you probably won't be able to find a copy of CAR part 3. Here is a link:
http://www.stacheair.com/data/At Work9B Repair Station CD/Data Info/CAR's/cars.html

An example:
Carb heat. You won't find carb heat mentioned in in 91.205, but if you look in CAR part 3 or FAR part 23 you will find it. It can not be deferred without a ferry permit.

Also you must comply with any STCs or Supplemental Type Certificates. As an example of this every autopilot I have used requires a copy of the manual to be on the airplane. If the manual is not in the airplane the airplane is not airworthy in the eyes of the FAA.
STCs bring up an interesting scenario. If you want to get an STC for your airplane it must comply with the current certification regulation. So take two airplanes certified under CAR part 3. One is limited to VFR only, the other is IFR certified. Under CAR part 3 Pitot heat was not required for IFR certification. Under the current FAR part 23 Pitot heat is required (for the most part). So if you want to get an STC to certify the VFR only airplane for IFR you must install Pitot heat. The one originally certified for IFR is fine and dandy without Pitot heat.
I hope I did not confuse you more.
 
Thanks for the info. The reason I'm asking is because I am studying for the CFI initial. This being the case, I'd like to be able to explain the steps to this process to my students so that they CAN ACTUALLY PERFORM the steps to making the "can I go" decision. I've ask several instructors to elaborate on this step (i) and I have never received a clear answer. So from what you guys are saying, it sounds like I need to look in part 23?
 
92128 said:
Thanks for the info. The reason I'm asking is because I am studying for the CFI initial. This being the case, I'd like to be able to explain the steps to this process to my students so that they CAN ACTUALLY PERFORM the steps to making the "can I go" decision. I've ask several instructors to elaborate on this step (i) and I have never received a clear answer. So from what you guys are saying, it sounds like I need to look in part 23?
Click to expand...

I would not learn it verbatum, but know of some of the items that are required that you would not be able to defer. If you look through your normal pilot FAR/AIM you will not find part 23. I wrote an article on the subject that was published in Aviation Safety. If you'd like I can PM it to you.
 
In most POH's, there is an equipment list in the weight and balance section which shows the equipment that was required for certification, but it doesn't have everything, like what Blackhawk posted.
 
:clap: This forum is just amazing! Foget calling AOPA's hotline or the FSDO. If you REALLY want an answer, ask here. The depth of knowledge here is just astounding.

:beer: to Blackhawk and Tgrayson.
 
If you look on the back of an Airworthiness Certificate under section 5. Authority and Basis for Issuance.

It states: This airworthiness certificate is issued pursuant to the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 and certifies that, as the date of issuance, the aircraft to which issued has been inspected and found to conform to the type certificate...

Type Certificate (21.21): Must meet the type design... etc.

Type Design (21.31): Drawings and specs of the aircraft. Information on dimensions, materials, and processes necessary to define the structural strength of the product. The airworthiness limitations. And some more stuff..

Type Design = Type Certificate Data Sheet.

As you already mentioned you know what the TCDS is. This is about as far as you can take it sir. As mentioned on the back of the Airworthiness Cert, the airplane complies with the Type Certificate by getting an Airworthiness Certificate.

As mentioned in the TCDS, the ailerons can only go up so many Degrees and down so many Degrees. The prop has to be atleast 72 inchess long or whatever. Just make sure you meet whatever it says and you can move on to the next step under 91.213
 
TGrayson,

Would this information be found in the Master Equipment List or KOEL in the POH for newer aircraft?

For example, 91.205 does not require strobe lights specifically (only anti-collision lights), but the KOEL for a C-172SP does.

Thoughts?
 
element94 said:
Would this information be found in the Master Equipment List or KOEL in the POH for newer aircraft?...or example, 91.205 does not require strobe lights specifically (only anti-collision lights), but the KOEL for a C-172SP does.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

91.205 requires an anti-collision system, which the strobe lights might be part of, which it is in a C-172S. (A blinking light at the top of the vertical stab isn't the only way an anti-collision system manifests itself.)

The Master Equipment List you find in the W&B section isn't regulatory, but the KOEL is, since it's located in the Operating Limitations section. However, the Master Equipment List on the Cessnas IS informative, telling you what is mandatory based on a variety of regulations located elsewhere. However, I think the earlier C-172R Equipment Lists had the towbar as a "-R" (now it's "-S"), but that didn't make it so. And you won't see things like "ailerons" listed.

I suspect that most examiners, though, would be satisfied with referring to the equipment list in the W&B Section (called "Comprehensive Equipment List").
 
element94 said:
TGrayson,

Would this information be found in the Master Equipment List or KOEL in the POH for newer aircraft?

For example, 91.205 does not require strobe lights specifically (only anti-collision lights), but the KOEL for a C-172SP does.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Maybe... maybe not. For example. In some aircraft you will find that the spinner is listed as being required under the Master Equipment List... so you would probably want to fly with it installed or possibly face enforcement action. Yet there is nothing in FAR part 23 about a spinner being required.
In the Cessna you will find nothing about carb heat in the Master Equipment List... but as I mentioned you will be violated if the FAA finds out you fly with it inoperative as it is required under FAR part 23.
This is why 91.213 lists the different areas you must check. Some items are listed in one area, but not another. This is also why "TOMATOFLAMES" and "GRABCARD" can be dangerous as they are not all inclusive.
In addition to 91.213 it may be helpful to check the flow chart listed in AC 91-76.
 
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