91.175
- Thread starter Wm226
- Start date
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
If I remember right, there just aren't any published in the FARs for Part 91.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
91.175(f) Civil airport takeoff minimums. This paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121, 125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.
I think the fact that 91 is not listed is the basis.
Were I paranoid
anic: , I'd think it was written so that this omission gives 91 operators the rope to hang themselves (91.13) in case of an "event."
But the FAA is here to help, right?
I think the fact that 91 is not listed is the basis.
Were I paranoid
anic: , I'd think it was written so that this omission gives 91 operators the rope to hang themselves (91.13) in case of an "event."But the FAA is here to help, right?
bdhill1979
Gone West
I have always found it odd that the takeoff minimums for 121, 135, 125, and 129 were listed in part 91.175:dunno:91.175(f) Civil airport takeoff minimums. This paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121, 125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.
I think the fact that 91 is not listed is the basis.
Were I paranoid
But the FAA is here to help, right?
Maybe saying, no, there are not minimums, but lookie at these
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
USAF & most 121 operations = "If it is not permited, then it is prohibited"
NAVY, 135 ops, & the FAA = "If it is not specifically prohibited, then it is permited. So long as you don't bend any metal."
The AF treats you like a kid. They give you a noose with a very short piece of rope, so it's extremely easy to hang yourself.
The USN/USMC treats you like an adult. You get the same noose the AF gives you, but it's got a LONG rope attached to it, so if you DO manage to hang yourself.....you REALLY earned it.
Take cross countries for instance in a tactical jet:
USAF: Must go to an AFB if at all possible, secondarily to a NAS/MCAS. Civilian field as a last resort, which must meet X services and X security....blah, blah.
USN/USMC: Does the field you're going to have a long enough runway and DoD contract fuel? Have at it!
Same with risk management / safety. I remember talking to a German AF FSO (Flight Safety guy) back in '99 following a midair and loss of two Tornados near Carlsbad, NM. The Wing there was flying that next day, IIRC. Whereas the USAF would have a safety standdown for a few days, WG/CC calls, FCIFs/ORFs/SRFs, etc; the German FSO simply stated that "its the cost of doing business...we still have training to accomplish".
Similiar with the USAF views on even normal ops. In the Navy during recoveries, if crosswinds and and a wet runway are a concern, then their tactical jets will simply make short-field arrested landings with the E-27/28 cable strung across the runway.....simply space out the arrivals enough to allow the A-gear to retract and reset between arrestments. In the USAF, taking a BAK-9/12/14 cable (for other than emergency reasons) is treated as some sort of emergency for the A-gear system.....expect some sort of runway closure for resetting/rechecking the system, etc. Just a vastly different outlook on risk management.
Have a near incident in the AF, you're kept off the schedule for awhile, possibly retrained, etc, etc. Have a near incident in the USN/USMC, you write an article for Approach magazine!
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yep. That combined with the fact that there are rules for other types of ops.
Can you find the FAR that says you're allowed to taxi on a ramp?
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Have a near incident in the USN/USMC, you write an article for Approach magazine!
Great magazine, and every aviator should read it from time to time.
For what it's worth, I think the USN/USMC "What can we learn from your screw up?" attitude promotes safety much better than the USAF "Don't ever do any thing remotely unsafe" type approach.
Agree. The AF has nothing that compares to a good publication like Approach
germb747
Well-Known Member
The AF treats you like a kid. They give you a noose with a very short piece of rope, so it's extremely easy to hang yourself.
The USN/USMC treats you like an adult. You get the same noose the AF gives you, but it's got a LONG rope attached to it, so if you DO manage to hang yourself.....you REALLY earned it.
Take cross countries for instance in a tactical jet:
USAF: Must go to an AFB if at all possible, secondarily to a NAS/MCAS. Civilian field as a last resort, which must meet X services and X security....blah, blah.
USN/USMC: Does the field you're going to have a long enough runway and DoD contract fuel? Have at it!
Same with risk management / safety. I remember talking to a German AF FSO (Flight Safety guy) back in '99 following a midair and loss of two Tornados near Carlsbad, NM. The Wing there was flying that next day, IIRC. Whereas the USAF would have a safety standdown for a few days, WG/CC calls, FCIFs/ORFs/SRFs, etc; the German FSO simply stated that "its the cost of doing business...we still have training to accomplish".
Similiar with the USAF views on even normal ops. In the Navy during recoveries, if crosswinds and and a wet runway are a concern, then their tactical jets will simply make short-field arrested landings with the E-27/28 cable strung across the runway.....simply space out the arrivals enough to allow the A-gear to retract and reset between arrestments. In the USAF, taking a BAK-9/12/14 cable (for other than emergency reasons) is treated as some sort of emergency for the A-gear system.....expect some sort of runway closure for resetting/rechecking the system, etc. Just a vastly different outlook on risk management.
Have a near incident in the AF, you're kept off the schedule for awhile, possibly retrained, etc, etc. Have a near incident in the USN/USMC, you write an article for Approach magazine!
Man, reminds me of the first "incident" I had in the T-1 at Laughlin in pilot training. (AETC, of course, who takes everything to the extreme) We were climbing (below 10,000') and managed to get a low cabin warning (cabin didn't exceed about 5,000'). So we leveled off and returned for landing. Once we got on the ground, we taxied clear and these dudes wearing space suits came out to make sure we were okay. For the rest of the day we were hoarded over to the full bird flight doc, wing safety, etc.
Unrelated, but on a recent TDY to a very small CONUS AF base, I would have been able to swear that this was the most secure facility outside Fort Knox. Either that, or the SF here are really bored and have nothing to do. No less than three times on separate occasions when I was walking between billeting and the track for a workout after dark (probably around 2130), SF would turn on their lights and stop to detain me to figure out what I was doing. Not like I was in (or near) a restricted area or anything, but they had to check my ID and interrogate me like I was up to no good. Effective security or much ado about nothing?
Best keep a low profile and not get highlighted for anything--because the AF tends to take everything to the n'th degree!
juan valdez
Well-Known Member
Funny because it's true.Have a near incident in the USN/USMC, you write an article for Approach magazine!
I used to love reading those mags when I was still in. Even though I was not a pilot it still had some good lessons to be learned. Lots on risk management type stuff IIRC. Like operating in weather you shouldn't have been and becoming complacent on walk arounds etc.
captainphil
Well-Known Member
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
No. That's the point.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I'm still waiting to see some examples of this. Makes for a good joke, but if you actually look at the AFIs it's not how it really is.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Honestly I don't have any experiance from the cockpit in military aviation. However, from the MX point of view I've always been astounded at the way the USAF maintains their airplanes. Common sense rarely enters the equation.
I once watched 8 AF mechs take 3 hours to change a tire on a C-130 (I wish I was joking).
When a C-5 crew shorted out their entire elec system, we built a new wire harness from our spares, installed it ourselves, and were ready to resume the download, all before they had gotten permision from their HQ.
They actually discourage cross training between the various MX fields. I've never seen a AF pilot with a rag in his hand, much less a wrench. I've recently learned that the flying squadrons are completely seperate from the MX squadrons.
Naval aviation has it's share of institutional stupidity, but it seems much less than the USAF.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
LOL Reminds me of "A Few Good Men" when Lt. Kaffe asks one of the defendants to look in the regs and find the section on locating the mess hall.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
exactly, I was always told regs are a list of things you cant do, not things you can. If it doesnt specifically say you cant do it, then have at it.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
That's interesting. I've never seen a maintainer plan, brief, and lead a 4 v X air combat tactics ride.
You might be on to something there.