777 off-roading

This is a perfect example of why you always tell the tower you are doing an auto land. And You should always be ready to click the autopilot off if it starts doing something funny.
 
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So, this happened because a plane went into the critical area they say?

ATC never seems to keep other planes out of the ILS critical area anywhere I have seen yet. And I rarely see any aircraft voluntarily stop outside the area. CLT will run Cat 2, announce that we are doing Cat 2 only, and still almost no one stats out of the critical area and CLT controllers don’t instruct planes to stay out of it?

So what good does it do to tell ATC you are doing Cat 2/3 approaches?
 
Beefy McGee said:
So, this happened because a plane went into the critical area they say?

ATC never seems to keep other planes out of the ILS critical area anywhere I have seen yet. And I rarely see any aircraft voluntarily stop outside the area. CLT will run Cat 2, announce that we are doing Cat 2 only, and still almost no one stats out of the critical area and CLT controllers don’t instruct planes to stay out of it?

So what good does it do to tell ATC you are doing Cat 2/3 approaches?
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They do when it's hard IMC in my experience. Not sure what's the criteria but I've definitely been asked to "hold short of the ILS critical area."

On a side note the closest thing I've seen is any time an A380 turns off the runway at JFK (I think they can only use certain exits) the LOC goes crazy. As the vertical stab goes perpendicular to the runway it totally messes up the signal.
 
Beefy McGee said:
So, this happened because a plane went into the critical area they say?

ATC never seems to keep other planes out of the ILS critical area anywhere I have seen yet. And I rarely see any aircraft voluntarily stop outside the area. CLT will run Cat 2, announce that we are doing Cat 2 only, and still almost no one stats out of the critical area and CLT controllers don’t instruct planes to stay out of it?

So what good does it do to tell ATC you are doing Cat 2/3 approaches?
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Not that you probably care but this is when we’re supposed to protect the ILS critical area. I can’t answer the nuance of how or why CLT does what they do.
 

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I’ve been told to hold short of the critical area, as well as having heard it in the remarks of the ATIS at different places
 
At my place when they are doing an auto land half of the controllers will protect, the other half will just tell them the critical area won’t be protected.
 
I see glideslope interference very commonly on 18L/36R or 36C/18C in CLT, 1/19 in DCA, or 27R in PHL. You can see it visually on VFR days - your GS starts bouncing up and down as a big enough aircraft or ground vehicle goes across the near end of the runway during an approach. Lots of pilots (at our shop anyway) blame George for not being able to track a glide slope and don’t realize it’s interference. Those are just three airports off the top of my head where it happens often.
 
Beefy McGee said:
So, this happened because a plane went into the critical area they say?

ATC never seems to keep other planes out of the ILS critical area anywhere I have seen yet. And I rarely see any aircraft voluntarily stop outside the area. CLT will run Cat 2, announce that we are doing Cat 2 only, and still almost no one stats out of the critical area and CLT controllers don’t instruct planes to stay out of it?

So what good does it do to tell ATC you are doing Cat 2/3 approaches?
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They kinda, sorta shouldn't even have to ask. If it's IMC (800 and 2) at the aerodrome and the ILS is being used, is it not assumed taxing traffic will hold at the ILS bars??
 
Crop Duster said:
They kinda, sorta shouldn't even have to ask. If it's IMC (800 and 2) at the aerodrome and the ILS is being used, is it not assumed taxing traffic will hold at the ILS bars??
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I'd say we have a problem in the 121 world. Hardly anyone holds at the ILS line.
 
Beefy McGee said:
I see glideslope interference very commonly on 18L/36R or 36C/18C in CLT, 1/19 in DCA, or 27R in PHL. You can see it visually on VFR days - your GS starts bouncing up and down as a big enough aircraft or ground vehicle goes across the near end of the runway during an approach. Lots of pilots (at our shop anyway) blame George for not being able to track a glide slope and don’t realize it’s interference. Those are just three airports off the top of my head where it happens often.
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To be fair to the pilots and controllers in CLT, I don’t believe there is a marked ILS critical area for 18C/36C or 18L/36R on the airline side.

Looking at the charts and aerial photos, the same appears to be true for DCA and PHL.
 
msmspilot said:
To be fair to the pilots and controllers in CLT, I don’t believe there is a marked ILS critical area for 18C/36C or 18L/36R on the airline side.

Looking at the charts and aerial photos, the same appears to be true for DCA and PHL.
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Edit: thought there was one in a photo for 36C, but looking at the orientation of the letters ILS, I think it is for runway 5.

Edit again: yeah looks like you are right! I’m at those airports often, and *thought* there were ILS critical areas on those runways. That explains why no one ever holds short I reckon.
 
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msmspilot said:
To be fair to the pilots and controllers in CLT, I don’t believe there is a marked ILS critical area for 18C/36C or 18L/36R on the airline side.

Looking at the charts and aerial photos, the same appears to be true for DCA and PHL.
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Based on the geometry of a given location, I suppose it's possible some runways might not need ILS hold bars that differ from runway hold bars... yeah?
 
Crop Duster said:
Based on the geometry of a given location, I suppose it's possible some runways might not need ILS hold bars that differ from runway hold bars... yeah?
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Mostly. Think about parallel runways. If the ILS critical area is 850’ (I’m too lazy to look up the dimensions, but I believe it’s based on distance of the localizer antenna from the threshold, so the ILS critical areas isn’t a cookie cutter dimension) from the centerline which falls within the surface area of the parallel runway, holding short of the parallel would suffice for ILS critical area.
 
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