737-700 model question.....

Stomp16

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
Quick question after I flight I was on tonight. Flew back home to KC with Southwest on a 737-700 series. Weather at KC was fog and reported 1/2mile vis. Upon landing the a/c did not flare much at all and hit harder than normal. This got me thinking....are these series a/c equipped and does Southwest op-specs allow for auto-land?
 
Stomp16 said:
Quick question after I flight I was on tonight. Flew back home to KC with Southwest on a 737-700 series. Weather at KC was fog and reported 1/2mile vis. Upon landing the a/c did not flare much at all and hit harder than normal. This got me thinking....are these series a/c equipped and does Southwest op-specs allow for auto-land?
Click to expand...



1/2 mile doesnt say what the RVR was. The legality of the approach would not be based on reported visibility in this case.

I believe WN is head-up-display hand flown CAT III capable though.

As far as the clunker of a landing... in low vis you dont want to try to grease it on- flare appropriately and stick it on the runway to get it down. You get what you get... and get to the gate safely.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
1/2 mile doesnt say what the RVR was. The legality of the approach would not be based on reported visibility in this case.

I believe WN is head-up-display hand flown CAT III capable though.

As far as the clunker of a landing... in low vis you dont want to try to grease it on- flare appropriately and stick it on the runway to get it down. You get what you get... and get to the gate safely.
Click to expand...

The whole thing just seemed like an auto-land to me and I got excited about it. I've never been on a plane that had to shoot a CAT IIIc and thought that tonight may have been the first time. But, what do I know? :insane:
 
Stomp16 said:
The whole thing just seemed like an auto-land to me and I got excited about it. I've never been on a plane that had to shoot a CAT IIIc and thought that tonight may have been the first time. But, what do I know? :insane:
Click to expand...

A half mile is still cat I on many runways, including all of MCI's. :D
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
A half mile is still cat I on many runways, including all of MCI's. :D
Click to expand...

The announcement over the P.A. (2 hours before we got there) was 1/2 mile but it sure seemed a lot less than that when we got in. You're bursting my CAT III bubble man!!! :bandit:
 
If it was CAT IIIc, you probably wouldn't have been able to taxi to the gate. That's 0/0 IIRC.
 
If you notice on certain 737's, youll notice a "lunge forward and backward" at certain portions during the flight- this is because - as i was told- SWA ops specs does NOT allowed auto throttle- therefore- my conclusion is that SWA does not have autoland.


CAn we get someone from SWA to confrim?
 
Stomp16 said:
The announcement over the P.A. (2 hours before we got there) was 1/2 mile but it sure seemed a lot less than that when we got in. You're bursting my CAT III bubble man!!! :bandit:
Click to expand...
IIRC... the RVR was 1200V1600.

edit: Yup.. around the time of your post.. I remember seeing something like that on my iPhone:

[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KMCI 160753Z 20006KT 1/8SM R19R/1400V1600FT FZFG VV001 M02/M03 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP243 T10171033[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KMCI 160653Z 00000KT 1/8SM R19R/1200V1400FT FZFG VV001 M02/M03 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP240 T10171028[/FONT]
 
kiloalpha said:
You're at MCI? Go to the source directly... I'm sure there are plenty of bored SWA pilots. :)
Click to expand...

I was going to talk to the pilots of the flight last night but they took way too long to leave the a/c and I had a ride waiting. This morning I am with a different carrier and nowhere near a SW pilot.
 
Update! :p After getting canceled with the first carrier I booked with SW and talked to two of their pilots. The lowest they go is CAT IIIa and said they think the 700's are capable of IIIc but are disabled. Thank you everyone for your input.
 
We do CATII approaches to 1200 RVR. When we do them, we use a different flap setting which results in a bit higher groundspeed and a "flatter" angle during landing. I've done probably a dozen or more CATII approaches (most to minimums!), both day and night. About 50% were greased on, and about 50% were plunked on. It was all luck... Half the time I just used my best judgement on when to "flare" and hoped for the best.
 
The 737-700 lands a bit stiffer than other models because of the gear design. SW does CAT IIIa hand flown with no autothrottles using the HUD. At Continental, we do CAT IIIa (down to 600 RVR) to autoland using both autopilots and the autothrottles. In fact, any CAT II visibility that is less than 1200 RVR or any CAT III approach requires an autoland. CO does not use HUDs on their aircraft.
 
N519AT said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...


Surface Movement Guidance and Control System (SMGCS) .

In very basic terms, SMGCS is a tool used to control safe aircraft movement on the ground in very low visibility conditions - it is typically required with visibility less than 1200 RVR. The system includes special lighting and surface movement radar which allows the ground controllers and you to know where you are even though they can't see you from the tower. A follow on page to the Jepp 10-9 (like 10-9D) will illustrate what SMGCS tools are available as well as any limitations that may apply.

Great question.
 
N519AT said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...

calcapt said:
Surface Movement Guidance and Control System (SMGCS) .

In very basic terms, SMGCS is a tool used to control safe aircraft movement on the ground in very low visibility conditions - it is typically required with visibility less than 1200 RVR. The system includes special lighting and surface movement radar which allows the ground controllers and you to know where you are even though they can't see you from the tower. A follow on page to the Jepp 10-9 (like 10-9D) will illustrate what SMGCS tools are available as well as any limitations that may apply.

Great question.
Click to expand...

See attached. Taxi routes are also directional
 

Attachments

This thread brings to mind a question.

I've looked at a number of Cat III ILS plates, and on the Cat IIIc minimum section, it always says 'NA'. At first, I assumed that it meant 'Not Applicable'. Then I looked in the glossary at the front of the NACO chart book, and it says 'NA' means 'Not Authorized'. 'N/A' means 'Not Applicable'. This makes sense to me, since a number of approaches say 'Procedure NA at night.' or 'Circling east of Runway 36/18 (or whatever) NA.'

So am I reading this correctly? Are Cat IIIc approaches 'Not Authorized' at these places?
 
jcpilot said:
This thread brings to mind a question.

I've looked at a number of Cat III ILS plates, and on the Cat IIIc minimum section, it always says 'NA'. At first, I assumed that it meant 'Not Applicable'. Then I looked in the glossary at the front of the NACO chart book, and it says 'NA' means 'Not Authorized'. 'N/A' means 'Not Applicable'. This makes sense to me, since a number of approaches say 'Procedure NA at night.' or 'Circling east of Runway 36/18 (or whatever) NA.'

So am I reading this correctly? Are Cat IIIc approaches 'Not Authorized' at these places?
Click to expand...



The answer you seek is "Not Authorized" , you are correct.
 
FlyChicaga said:
We do CATII approaches to 1200 RVR. When we do them, we use a different flap setting which results in a bit higher groundspeed and a "flatter" angle during landing. I've done probably a dozen or more CATII approaches (most to minimums!), both day and night. About 50% were greased on, and about 50% were plunked on. It was all luck... Half the time I just used my best judgement on when to "flare" and hoped for the best.
Click to expand...

Same here. Landed in DTW a couple of months back with reported 1600. I think that was optimistic seeing as it was "Nothing, nothing....HOLY CRAP! THERE'S THE RUNWAY!" At least that was my internal monologue. External was more like "My controls." All I know is, that blue line for minimums was approaching fast, and I didn't see anything but fog/clouds/rain/mist.

I actually had to think to remember what a SMGS chart was. We don't have 'em. We've got "AGC LVCs"
 
I've flown a couple CATIII's in SW's sims and there is a circle that you keep the HUD centered on. It even tells you exactly where to flare/cutpower and rollout. Pretty sweet for all handflying. I'm not sure how smooth of a landing the flare will give you.
 
jcpilot said:
So am I reading this correctly? Are Cat IIIc approaches 'Not Authorized' at these places?
Click to expand...

There aren't many places you are going to find a IIIc approach authorized. Even if you do land, you would conceivably be stuck on the runway or taxiway as you couldn't see anything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top