61.167 - Teaching by ATPs

MidlifeFlyer

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
We've had a number of discussion here on the authority of ATPs to give instruction. Most of them discussed the scope and limitations of the authority - by ATPs in a carrier training program to other pilots in the carrier training program.

In another the question was raised whether even that training authority was too much. After all, thoses ATP training pilots without even having a CFI haven't even been required to learn the FOI!

Whatever you think of the quality of the FAA's training materials, what I'm trying to do is get a sense of what type of instruction is given and the quality/background of the teaching. I'm bad at creating polls for things like but for those who have been in carier training programs, I'd like some thoughts on

(1) the quality of the instruction
(2) the background of the instructors (were they current CFIs, expired CFIs, never CFIs, folks with teaching experience from other walks of life, people with no teaching or traing background whatsoever), etc.
(3) your assessment of the percentages of question 2 people involved.
(4) whether your experience is with Part 121 or Part 135.

Thanks.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
We've had a number of discussion here on the authority of ATPs to give instruction. Most of them discussed the scope and limitations of the authority - by ATPs in a carrier training program to other pilots in the carrier training program.

In another the question was raised whether even that training authority was too much. After all, thoses ATP training pilots without even having a CFI haven't even been required to learn the FOI!
Click to expand...
I absolutely don't think it's too much authority, and the carriers have to do at least something like FOI on these folks.

Let us open our hymnals to 14 CFR 121.413(c):
(c) The initial ground training for check airmen must include the following:
(1) Check airman duties, functions, and responsibilities.
(2) The applicable Code of Federal Regulations and the certificate holder's policies and procedures.
(3) The appropriate methods, procedures, and techniques for conducting the required checks.
(4) Proper evaluation of student performance including the detection of—
(i) Improper and insufficient training; and
(ii) Personal characteristics of an applicant that could adversely affect safety.
(5) The appropriate corrective action in the case of unsatisfactory checks.
(6) The approved methods, procedures, and limitations for performing the required normal, abnormal, and emergency procedures in the airplane.
Click to expand...

So...yeah. They do get some instruction on instruction, but it's specific to air carrier operations.

In response to your questions:
(1) Fair to excellent.
(2) I have no idea, but our chief instructor for the EMB 120 has more time in the flare than most of us flying it nowadays have total time. Most were likely CFIs at one time for purposes of career advancement.
(3) I'd say that most, particularly the younger crowd might have been flight instructors at one time. I'm not sure I can give you a percentage.
(4) 121.
 
To be an instructor in a part 121 airline , you have to go through the instructor training course. It typically takes at least 3 months to get started, and over a year to get fully qualified to teach ground and sim, etc. even longer to qualify to be an APD.

You can't just walk up and say, "I got my ATP, so I'm doin' some treachin'."
 
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