61.159 (d)(e)

esa17

Well-Known Member
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:
(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time.
(2) 100 hours of night flight time.
(3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions, subject to the following:
(i) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(3)(ii) of this section, an applicant may not receive credit for more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator or flight training device.
(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) of this section if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(iii) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device, representing an airplane.
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
(5) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(b) A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of night flight time to satisfy the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section; however, not more than 25 hours of night flight time may be credited in this manner.
(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:
(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane—
(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;
(ii) Engaged in operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter for which a second in command is required; or
(iii) That is required by the operating rules of this chapter to have more than one pilot flight crewmember.
(2) Flight-engineer time, provided the time—
(i) Is acquired in an airplane required to have a flight engineer by the airplane's flight manual or type certificate;
(ii) Is acquired while engaged in operations under part 121 of this chapter for which a flight engineer is required;
(iii) Is acquired while the person is participating in a pilot training program approved under part 121 of this chapter; and
(iv) Does not exceed more than 1 hour for each 3 hours of flight engineer flight time for a total credited time of no more than 500 hours.
(d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant:
(1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section;
(2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and
(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.
(e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.
I'm having a discussion about the ATP with a few buddies of mine and we can't seem to come to a solid conclusion. How exactly would you guys interpret subparts d and e of regs? The fate of the free world, I mean, free beer hangs in the balance.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I would interpret it to say that ICAO requirements for ATP are different or that flight time is credited differently than the FAA does. IOW, a US pilot can get an FAA ATP in situations where ICAO requirements are not met. If that's the case, the pilot will have an ATP with the notation that says ICAO requirements have not been met, until they are met.

But that much is probably obvious and I don't know enough about ICAO requirements to hazard a guess how they are different.

If you want to see, here's a link to ICAO Annex 1 that includes ICAO pilot license requirements

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/sic/ICAOAnnex1.pdf
 

germb747

Well-Known Member
According to the FAA (John Lynch), the 1200-hour rule is obsolete as ICAO now requires 1500 hours with no more than 50% SIC time to get an ATP that doesn't contain the “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” statement. In fact this ICAO requirement has existed for quite some time. Why it's still worded that way in the FARs, who knows?
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Why it's still worded that way in the FARs, who knows?
If what you say is accurate, chances are it's still worded that way because no one got around to changing it.

Last year, the FAA amended 91.205 to change

==============================
Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.
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to
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Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown
==============================
to account for RNAV, which has been around for...
 
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