55-60K to spend......

brent p h said:
(How much fuel in todays market are we talking about too get to the 250hr mark?)
Click to expand...

What does a 152 burn? A little less than 6 GPH? Let's figure 5....

5 * 250 = 1,250 gallons. At $4.50/gal figure around $5,600 for 250 hrs of fuel in a 152. Also, keep in mind that part of your 250 hours will be done in a multi-engine airplane.
 
bdhill1979 said:
Anybody that pays that much for a ME add on is just plum retarded

Figure about $5-7k for ME add on and MEI. That is a HIGH estimate
Click to expand...

multi engine instruction is going to cost at least 220/hour on the low side. $5000/220= 22 hours. In 22 hour you are going to go threw your private, comm, and me? Then how will you go on to convince someone to let you work as an mei for them with 22 hrs of multi, with that little time you can't even get insurance to rent a multi, but they would let you teach people to fly it? I think multi is just going to be expensive to get. You are probably going to have a tough time to get it under 300/hour if you don't want to travel to get it. In my area it is 290/hr for the plane 70/hour for the instructor 5-7k will not get far at those rates.
 
Skymates is advertising a block rate of $200/hr for a Seminole. I don't know what their instructor rate is now, but it can't imagine it's more than $50/hr. $5,000 will buy 20 hours of instruction, and that's probably about right for a CMEL add-on and MEI. A handful of schools will let you instruct in a twin with low time if you've gone through their own training program.

Since the OP lives in Dallas, no relocation would be required.

welle036 said:
In my area it is 290/hr for the plane 70/hour for the instructor 5-7k will not get far at those rates.
Click to expand...

$70/hr for an instructor?!?! Where do you live?
 
welle036 said:
multi engine instruction is going to cost at least 220/hour on the low side. $5000/220= 22 hours. In 22 hour you are going to go threw your private, comm, and me? Then how will you go on to convince someone to let you work as an mei for them with 22 hrs of multi, with that little time you can't even get insurance to rent a multi, but they would let you teach people to fly it? I think multi is just going to be expensive to get. You are probably going to have a tough time to get it under 300/hour if you don't want to travel to get it. In my area it is 290/hr for the plane 70/hour for the instructor 5-7k will not get far at those rates.
Click to expand...
Rates in your area are ridiculous then.

$290 an hour for what kind of plane?

$70 an hour for an instructor is also ridiculous.

The school I work for is at about $185 last I checked, and $45 an hour for instructor.

Near me, Air Center of Salt Lake will rent you a Seneca for $194 an hour; as low as $154 if you join the flight club.There an instructor is $44 an hour.

Every MEI I know had about 25-30 hours of multi time when they got hired as an instructor. You must only have 15 Multi PIC to instruct.

The highest Insurance requirement I have seen to rent a multi is 15 hours in type.

Hell, at the flight school I was working at they were giving me free time to try to get me to stay, I have about 10 free hours in my logbook, had I stayed it would be more, but multi time IS NOT everything.

I can only think of two or three regionals that still have their posted minimums at 100 hours ME. Everybody else is at 50 hours or a wet CMEL.

Honestly I think I will be done with my CMEL and MEI (If I can ever get the checkride scheduled) for around $3500 out of pocket. Actually $4000 with examiner fees.
 
welle036 said:
You will need multi engine time along with complex a/c time. Buying your own plane would allow you to build single engine time, but you will have to spend an additional 15-20k on your multi engine training depending on how many hours you are looking for. The best advice for buying your own plane will come from people that have actually owned one. i have read mixed opinions on the subject and there is a risk of very expensive maintenance problems that an owner takes on. Joing a flying club is another option for reducing the cost of training. Flight schools also present risks as well, schools have closed abruptly and not refunded any of the money students had deposited in their training accounts. Paying for training as you go is a good idea, so keep that in mind if anyone wants large chunks of cash up front.
Click to expand...

An aircraft purchase does seem too be a logical option. As stated in a previous post which highlighted some of the pros and cons (which I was afraid of) maintenance, fuel and such maybe the ATP option or some type of structured training regimine might better suit me. Skymates was mentioned earlier. Does anyone have any experience with that outfit?
 
"5 * 250 = 1,250 gallons. At $4.50/gal figure around $5,600 for 250 hrs of fuel in a 152."

You can burn auto gas in 150/152's. So, you're looking at $3.00/3.30 per gallon if you don't mind hauling gas. I've done it for years. Works great. See www.autofuelstc.com

"multi engine instruction is going to cost at least 220/hour on the low side"

I know a guy with an Apache with a Garmin 430 in it that charges $160. One way to build your multi time is to do some of your IFR rating and/or commercial complex training in a twin. Timebuilding programs are another way of building inexpesive multi time. Personally, I don't think more than 25 hours should be flown this way as you get max benefit from this time pretty quick.

A 152 could be used for IFR but it's going to be kinda limited in performance and capability. Also, you'd need to be careful to find a CFI that will fit in the thing.
 
Personally, I would not buy a 152. If you shop you could get a 172 or a cherokee for near the same money and have ALOT more airplane. To give you a flavor, I ended up with an old cherokee 160. Good paint and interior, dated panel but everything works. I had to do a couple things to get it up to snuff but it only has 500 hrs on the engine and has all the speed mods. I am not sure of the numbers on a 152 but compare to my 160:

140 MPH TAS with speed mods
990 pound useful load
Seats 4
50 gallon fuel capacity
Much more comfortable and stable
Fuel burn is around 8.5 gallons per hour so that does add up but well worth it in my opinion.
Total cost with new glass all around, nice new handheld gps, deferred maintenence taken care of, 1 yr of insurance, light avionics update, IFR cert, tie down fees for 6 months still under 30k.

All my time previous to this plane was in a 152 and a 172. I am a bigger guy and the 152 was too small with two people. It was fun to fly but not very smooth compared to the 172. I liked the 172 and would likely have purchased one of those had the price been right. As far as the high wing vs. low wing debate I don't even have a preference. They both have their pros and cons but both are easy and fun to fly. I shopped really hard so if you have any questions or would like to go for a ride let me know.
 
38bat said:
Personally, I would not buy a 152. If you shop you could get a 172 or a cherokee for near the same money and have ALOT more airplane. To give you a flavor, I ended up with an old cherokee 160. Good paint and interior, dated panel but everything works. I had to do a couple things to get it up to snuff but it only has 500 hrs on the engine and has all the speed mods. I am not sure of the numbers on a 152 but compare to my 160:

140 MPH TAS with speed mods
990 pound useful load
Seats 4
50 gallon fuel capacity
Much more comfortable and stable
Fuel burn is around 8.5 gallons per hour so that does add up but well worth it in my opinion.
Total cost with new glass all around, nice new handheld gps, deferred maintenence taken care of, 1 yr of insurance, light avionics update, IFR cert, tie down fees for 6 months still under 30k.

All my time previous to this plane was in a 152 and a 172. I am a bigger guy and the 152 was too small with two people. It was fun to fly but not very smooth compared to the 172. I liked the 172 and would likely have purchased one of those had the price been right. As far as the high wing vs. low wing debate I don't even have a preference. They both have their pros and cons but both are easy and fun to fly. I shopped really hard so if you have any questions or would like to go for a ride let me know.
Click to expand...
I have heard a lot of people elaborate on the 152,s payload capacity. I am a fairly large guy at 6' 5" 240lbs. Does anyone think this will be a problem?
 
brent p h said:
I have heard a lot of people elaborate on the 152,s payload capacity. I am a fairly large guy at 6' 5" 240lbs. Does anyone think this will be a problem?
Click to expand...
You would be better off to go with something bigger.A 152 is gonna be a tight fit with you and a pax. ,T.C.
 
You guys make this whole buying an airplane thing sound real easy and simple. Has anyone on here actually trained that way?
 
aerospacepilot said:
  • Spend 35k on flight training at your local FBO. Get all your licenses and ratings (private, instrument, commercial, multi, and CFI, CFII, and MEI).
Click to expand...

agreed. I haven't started my training yet but after weighing all the factors for my individual situation, this is the best route.

aerospacepilot said:
Take the other 20-25k you have left over (since you decided to NOT go to a super expensive pilot factory), and I would do the following:
  • Take a 2 week trip to Europe. Visit Italy, France, the Greek Isles, and any other place you ever wanted to see.
  • Buy a brand new iPhone
  • Buy a new top of the line laptop
  • Buy yourself a brand new 60" flat screen TV
  • Throw a party. Invite all your friends. Spend hundreds of dollars on alcohol, decorations, and hire a DJ.
  • Buy yourself some type of mans toy (like an ATV, or a waverunner, or small motorcycle)
  • Put $5,000 into a mutual fund, don't touch it for 20 years. Then use all the money you earned, and do all of the above AGAIN!
The choice is yours. My advice is to spend about $35k getting flight training at a local FBO. Then take the rest of the money and PARTY! You won't have all that money left over if you go to an expensive pilot factory.
Click to expand...

ehh.... that much money would be a good way to supplement your first job as a cfi and your first few years as an FO. I'd invest the extra cash into a stable fund that will generate you some revenue (like a CD) and hold it for a year. Once you get that first job, having that extra cash will really come in handy so that you can add afford to add eggs to your Ramen Noodles:D
 
Forget the 152. I am 220 and with an instructor we were overweight every flight! Look at a cherokee 140 or better yet a 160 if you can find one. I ended up with a factory 160 but there are also lots of 140's with 160 conversions. Like I said, 990 pound useful load gives you lots of room. 50 gallons of fuel is also nice and a four place is great. The 160 has a large baggage area with baggage door and that is a huge bonus over the 140 in addition to the better speed, performance and payload.

I forget who asked but yes, I am training this way and it was not totally easy. Buying an airplane is a big deal. It was also hard when I didn't know much about airplanes, but I got it figured out. DE727 gave me some good info and got me on the right track. I was also lucky that I had a good, knowledgable instructor. I also made friends with the local A&P(who only charges $45 and hour) and the local avionics guy. If anybody has questions I would be glad to help. I used an escrow etc. and it was all fairly easy. Hard part is finding a cfi that will meet your needs although if you have a plane you are mobile! I can also make some suggestions on that. It is great to be able to go whenever you want for as long as you want, a luxury you will not have renting. This can speed things up greatly.
 
38bat, With owning your own plane are you saving a pretty good chunk having your own plane or is the convienence factor the major benefit? How would a major repair 7-10k effect everything savings wise?

Pedex, Where can you go private through MEI for 35k? That is pretty cheap and how much multi time is that including?
 
welle036 said:
38bat, With owning your own plane are you saving a pretty good chunk having your own plane or is the convienence factor the major benefit? How would a major repair 7-10k effect everything savings wise?

Pedex, Where can you go private through MEI for 35k? That is pretty cheap and how much multi time is that including?
Click to expand...


Looks like White Air can come close to that, and it looks like a damn good deal:

Private Pilot
Instrument Rating
Commercial Single Engine
Commercial Multi Engine
Certified Flight Instructor
Certified Flight Instructor Instrument
Multi Engine Instructor

$41,395

And you get:

280 hours of flight time.
240 hours of Cessna 172 or PA-28
40 hours of PA-30 Twin Comanche
(No safety pilot time)**
Unlimited Ground Instruction
Unlimited Flight Instruction
All textbooks included
Charts/Approach Plates included
Kneeboard
E6B Flight Computer
Plotter
Pilot Logbook
IFR Binder
ASA Oral and PTS guides
ASA Test Prep guides
All Written Tests included
6 months housing included
 
You have to add the checkride fees to the white air price, which will probably put the price closer to 45k and starting from 0 hours you may go over the mins in some of the training and add that to the price too.
 
Regardless - if you can find a better deal than White Air I'll be impressed - and you'd be helping out some other guys as well. Win - win!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top