$5000 Reward for FloridaFlyer???

W

Welsh Chris

New Member
God darn it, I only came on here to see what the latest was on the "Another Crash at Ari-Ben Aviator" thread.. to find it has been ERASED. Talked about censorship, it's like watching Fox News!! I hope the title didn't upset Michael Cohen, he's my good friend, and I, er, love him. For being an upstanding moral crusader. 'Top chap' as they say, in Kabul.

So when I heard that MC has put up a REWARD in Dispatch for $5000 for information "leading to the succesful prosecution of FloridaFlyer..call my lawyer on ... " I could hardly believe my ears. That doesn't sound like Cohen. He's such a friendly caring man, who'd do anything to smooth a situation like that out. So what is going on back there??

FloridaFlyer, RPM and the other Whistleblowers should be left to state their opinions and collection of insider facts. The world is a better place when everyone is allowed to speak freely. Even if that upsets a few people with other interests. Horah to Doug and Christie for running such a great site (apart from deleting my thread!).

back in new year
Chris
 
They're very upset, which I cannot blame them for because if someone tried to 86 my business, I'd be out for blood too.

But this is becoming tiring as I've got users in the 'less than ten posts club' accounting for 80% of moderation stress.

I'm not sure of what you know about my website, but this is a gross mis-characterization of jetcareers.com.

I respect user's anonymity because I want them to be able to speak freely and objectively about various issues. But often time, people misuse that anonymity and utilize it as a protective trench to sling barbs at one another.

So as a web master, I'm presented with a quandary. Try to find the 'middle ground' bring the sides together to see what sticks to the wall and what doesn't. Determine what's outright "I botched the landing, my ego won't accept failure, it's my CFI's fault" from the legitimate concerns about training syllabus qualities.

Who's the determinate of whether or not certain things are 'insider facts' and what things are deleterious anonymous barbs thrown because someone's angry about something and hasn't the courage or professionalism to address them.

The situation is similar to having problems with a captain on the line.

A good FO will say, "Captain Tiberious, I don't think we're seeing eye-to-eye on approach minimums, could we talk about it between flights?"

Whereas the antithesis is leaving an anonymous note on the pilot lounge bulletin board written in crayon exclaiming "... 757/767 Captain Kirk J. Tiberious continually busts minimums, scares the crap out of the crews and should be fired immediately! -- Signed anonymous first officer".

Renegade captain?

Disgruntled FO?

How is a reader supposed to make the determination whether or not the captain needs to be immediately sent to re-qualification training or that the first officer needs to be sent to the board of professional standards and/or given a little time off?

I'll be honest, I've got a good working relationship with all of my advertisers. If I didn't, it's not worth risking losing credibility of a community that I've strived to build for the past nine, well in January 2006, TEN years. You gots to be kidding.

They've got my number and I've got theirs so if there's a concern, they know they're going to get a telephone call. And if they've got a concern, I can expect a telephone call as well. And I know most of my regular forum users personally, so admittedly "DE727UPS" is going to have waaaaay more more credibility than "Tony_McGillicuty" who registered last week.

But I don't know a "Welch Chris" or a "FloridaFlyer". But I've had a problem-free working relationship with Ari Ben for several years.

So I ask:

Renegade captain?

Disgruntled FO?

You're the web master.... Choose correctly.
 
don

huh?? I definately left feeling the rough end of cohen justice, but disgruntled - not me. merely now philosophical about the nature of business ethics, particularly in relation to marketing.

I'll reframe my question:

"Is it true that MC has offered a reward of $5000 leading to the identification and successful legal prosecution of jetcareers.com user FloridaFlyer?"


I ask purely out of curiosity.
 
Be a man and ask them directly.

Fantastic job of dodging the spirit of my post.
 
Welsh Chris said:
Talked about censorship, it's like watching Fox News!!
Click to expand...


FOX NEWS ROCKS!! CNN is the one who censors the news. NBC (as much as I love them) does to; for the most part.

Cant trust any other news but FOX!!
 
Welsh Chris said:
I ask purely out of curiosity.
Click to expand...

If it was curiosity it wouldn't be such a big issue. Curiosity has a much looser feel than your previous posts.
Even if there is a 5G contract, just be happy it's not you...or is it?
 
Chris,

I also heard the rumor, and was about to ask that same $5000 question.

I too think it's ridiculous that those negative posts were deleted, because FF and others addressed some factual problems that most students and instructors at this school were too timid to voice while I was there. It's not right that a rosey picture is painted for potential customers, let the thorns be left on the stem! If that's the case then some of the BS "everything is just great down here" posts should be trimmed as well. I'm not bitter with the school or it's owner. I got what I paid for, but the pain along the way was sometimes unbearable. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but the school has just as many bad points as it does good. I'm willing to share my experience with those who ask, because there are some things, both positive and negative, I wish I knew before I committed myself to training and instructing at this school.

So is it true? A cash reward for a whistle-blower?
 
ShoreFly said:
I got what I paid for, but the pain along the way was sometimes unbearable.
Click to expand...


what pain do you speak of that you just could not bear?

If I was Florida_flyer I would turn myself in, to collect the reward. Also, anyone know what charges MC could have filed against FF?? Seems to me this would be a civil case (defamation of character?) I missed the original post that started the whole hoopla
 
Shorefly, So I ask yet again, "renegade captain" or "disgruntled FO"?

If there was a conspiracy to hammer down negative comments and uplift the positives, don't you think I'd be about $5,000 richer now? Especially when it's Christmas season and that'd be a nice 60-inch plasma display for the home office with enough left over to get a new iMac? :)

Some of the newbies in this forum think I'm going to supposedly "sell out" for an advertiser, but suspiciously not say "here are all of the login credentials! Pay me!"

What a kick in the groin.
 
Queboat: I choose not to argue publicly, because that's not what this forum is about. If a prospective student asks for facts, then I'm happy to share.
That being said Quinn, check your PM for my rebuttal.

Doug: With all due respect, I like your board and it is run professionally.

Unfortunately we have a situation where an advertiser is scanning the forum for negative comments about his school, trying to stamp out ANYTHING which may cause him to lose money. I, like others, have been approached in person by this advertiser to edit or completely delete neutral to negative comments on this forum. When he asked me to do the same, I told him that I would IF anything I said in there was not a fact. The posts are still on here, unedited. I try not to give too much in the way of opinion when people ask me about this school.

So to answer your question Doug, the FO brought it to the attention of the CA by first mentioning it to him during debrief, then posting the CFM paragraph in the crew room so the trend doesn't get overlooked by newer FOs. Upon seeing the CFM, paragraph highlighted, the embarrased CA asked the FO to rip the CFM down, or even change it to suit his needs. Is that right?
 
What seperates JC from Flightinfo

Doug demands a certain level of verbal conduct at this site. Not sure if that's why the thread dissapeared but as I followed it, I felt like things were starting to get out of hand. Opinions on both sides of the issue are welcome and encouraged but you need to keep it civil. When you don't, threads dissappear and some of you get all bent out of shape. Well, I happen to like the like the level of decorum demanded at this site and am glad it's run differently than flightinfo.

I'm sure it won't take long for a new thread to start. Try to keep the level the cussin' to a minimum.
 
Nah, DE727UPS!

People want a free website where they can go nuts, curse, flame and have all of us moderators running around like headless chickens taking out the curse words and babysitting like kindergarten teacher aides. It's ok when it's another users posts, but not mine, heaven's no, I'm a patriot, a revolutionary, a whistleblower!

The editorial authority to decide if a thread has gone way past it's prime is far less important than someone's inalienable right to turn our forum into a net.fallujia.

Self responsibility be damned! :)
 
ShoreFly said:
Unfortunately we have a situation where an advertiser is scanning the forum for negative comments about his school, trying to stamp out ANYTHING which may cause him to lose money. I, like others, have been approached in person by this advertiser to edit or completely delete neutral to negative comments on this forum. When he asked me to do the same, I told him that I would IF anything I said in there was not a fact. The posts are still on here, unedited. I try not to give too much in the way of opinion when people ask me about this school.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but here's the real deal.

You only have the ability to edit/delete posts within 60 minutes of making it and I have full access to see if users are deleting posts or not and it hasn't happened much at all. And when it does, it's usually "The Lavatory" or "General Topics" when there's a news break and someone posts a new topic which is already posted.

"Stamp out" or "Clear up"? I'm still trying to ascertain, as an active webmaster what the deal is, but most of the people that have a beef will not answer the question, but are quick to throw barbs at me as if I'm involved in some secret conspiracy.

People that request that I delete posts, but they're denied. Posts aren't deleted, they're moved to the "Admin/Mod" section.

DO I NEED TO RENT A BILLBOARD PEOPLE?!

So to answer your question Doug, the FO brought it to the attention of the CA by first mentioning it to him during debrief, then posting the CFM paragraph in the crew room so the trend doesn't get overlooked by newer FOs. Upon seeing the CFM, paragraph highlighted, the embarrased CA asked the FO to rip the CFM down, or even change it to suit his needs. Is that right?
Click to expand...

- I'm not familiar with what a CFM is.

- You do not have the ability to edit/delete a post after 60 minutes, nor do I ever grant requests to do such because I'm not a secretary.

- Posts are only moved to the admin section when they've gotten out of hand and all of the moderators agree or it's moved back into normal circulation.

- Of all the posts that were "timed out" from the entire website, exactly ---> TWO <--- have ever been "timed out" from the Ari Ben forum because they became ridiculous flame wars.

Do you want Jetcareers or do you want Flightinfo/airliners.net?
 
ShoreFly said:
I, like others, have been approached in person by this advertiser to edit or completely delete neutral to negative comments on this forum. When he asked me to do the same, I told him that I would IF anything I said in there was not a fact. The posts are still on here, unedited. I try not to give too much in the way of opinion when people ask me about this school.
Click to expand...
but honestly, you really should be able to give your *honest* opinion about how the school is run and operated...the forums give users a username so that they *can* be counted as anonymous... Did you give away your username when asked to "watch your posts", much less the fact that you post on jetcareers?? because i can personally guarantee that we do not have that information...upon registration, we don't even ask for first/last name and/or any other data of that nature. we would if we required membership charges, but we still prefer not to go that route.

I don't quite understand why you try to not give you opinion about the school? you are attending there, you do have an opinion....

not only that, but you can only edit your post up to an hour after it's posted and the only people that can delete it after that hour is us mods/admin folks.. and no, we don't have time to be deleting a bunch of posts, nor would we...

if a post disappears it's because it went "to the dark side" of cussing, personal attacks or what not...before deletion, it either goes to the lav as somewhat of a "chill out, move it out of the general publics eye" or it goes to the mod/admin section for review...I think we moved it to the mod/admin section as a chill out period and at some point, we may move it back... i really dunno.. it's not at the top of our todo list right now.
 
  • CFM = Company Flight Manual
  • Opinions = I like to state facts, good and not so good, and leave most of the opinion making up to the reader. I have expressed my honest opinions here, but I don't think they carry as much weight as fact, because most readers here do not know me personally.
  • Apparently I was identified by my profile.
The bottom line here is that I'm not attacking Doug or the integrity of this forum. I am concerned however that the guys who really need the facts aren't getting both sides.

SF - out
 
Thank you ShoreFly and WelshChris for defending my right to express my opinions. Mike Cohen has created a climate of fear at Ariben Aviator and does not want us to have an opinion that is not his own.

As for the reward; I don't buy it that MC would pay up if someone did turn me in. He's so full of hot air you could get your lighter than air rating on that dude. I have consulted AOPA on the matter and it seems it would be tough for MC to take any kind of action. He would need to prove my identity and this would be tough with JC's attitude to outing posters. He would then need to hire an attorney and file an expensive lawsuit against me. That would meaning proving what I have said is untrue; difficult! If he wins he can claim damages. Where does he think the money is coming from? The sale of one of my Malibu mansions maybe?

My advice to Mike is to take the crazy reward notice down. How do you think it looks to new or possible students? Admit the schools faults and concentrate on fixing them. Meanwhile, I will continue to excercise my right to free speech about Aviator on this and other forums.
 
I guess my big beef are you and them using THIS forum to trade semi-anonymous barbs at one another. I don't have the interest or patience to moderate your customer service issues or their beef with you. Got a message for the management there, CALL THEM.

Good gravy people, work it out like adults. This ain't Romper Room and this certainly isn't "Turk 182, the net.sequel"

And if I've got to break out my 'users be good' stick, I'll be sure to send a PDF version of the U.S. Constitution so the combatants can highlight which sections I've supposedly violated and forward them back to me for consideration.

How hard is it? Geez!
 
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