5 terrifying seconds

While I'd caveat this by saying nearly all of my flying these days is done at controlled fields, I'll say that throughout my flying "career" (both military and civilian), I've had more close calls at controlled fields than I have at uncontrolled. MikeD has an excellent point that everyone needs to have their heads on a swivel at uncontrolled fields. I think folks generally do a pretty good job at this, but on the other hand, I think that sometimes people get complacent at controlled fields and trust the tower controllers a little too much. I've had my interval in the pattern cut out more times than I can count, and have had 2 or 3 near midairs at the tower controlled initial as well (these being "holy crap those jets are filling my canopy" close, and not including more instances where proactive airmanship from my aircraft or others only have averted a such close call).

edit: and don't even get me started on El Centro....that place is the freaking wild west. On a daily basis we had Canadian Hornets breaking into us and basically joining on us at the abeam/downwind they had so much uncontrolled closure....at least until one very angry, short, and intimidating USMC major went and had a word with their OIC :) Not to mention tower sequencing like 8 flights of bombers into the initial simultaneously coming back from the R areas
 
Remember what your Dad told you about defensive driving? At uncontrolled fields, everyone is NORDO, everyone is an idiot, and everyone is trying to personally kill you. Not because they are, but because they could be.

Good job.
 
i want you guys opinion on my operating practices for a second, constructive criticism welcome:

generally when im going into an uncontrolled field, im going just for a quick fuel stop during my work day. i have no interest in joining the pattern, doing touch and goes, whatever. i want to get in, land, get out.

fortunately in school, my instructors drilled into my head to make appropriate traffic calls, listen to the CTAF as early as practical to assess if theres any traffic, etc.

now, lets say im coming from something resembling a base or straight in.

i usually call 10 miles....state intentions for straight in full stop, etc... then listen

call 5 miles...same thing

call 3 miles and position, be it base, 3 mile final, whatever.

then land and gtfo.

sometimes theres people in the pattern, sometimes there isnt. i always try to time my power/spacing so that the other guys can continue their normal pattern work and i just slip in and land without screwing up their stuff.

im i being the jerk trying to jump in line? ive never had anyone complain about it, and i always make sure to visually find the other traffic if people are in fact talking on the radio with me, and work myself in there with minimal interruption.

is this poor form?
 
TXaviator said:
i want you guys opinion on my operating practices for a second, constructive criticism welcome:
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I'll fly a straight-in to an uncontrolled field if its convenient and wont disrupt the traffic flow, or if there's very light traffic. Will always announce and update my intentions when doing so too. If it seems that convenience for me will cause true inconvenience for others, or it just wouldn't be safe, then I simply join the pattern and and take the extra 5-10 mins.
 
TXaviator said:
is this poor form?
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You sir, know what you are doing. I'd happily do touch and go's at any uncontrolled field with you.

I'm sticking to what I said earlier though. I'm not sure why t-cart and tlewis95 take exception. I've seen this kind of BS at uncontrolled airports. Not everybody who goes there is a cowboy, but the cowboys who ARE there make it VERY dangerous for all concerned. I'd rather deal with a grumpy tower controller than with some clown who's going to do a downwind departure without a radio. If that's ignorant, well so be it.

The concept of an uncontrolled field isn't inherently unsafe, but I think the nut jobs tend to go there because they know they can do as they please without a controller to tell them to make a full stop then call a number. It's the pilots that make the airport unsafe.
 
MikeD said:
I'll fly a straight-in to an uncontrolled field if its convenient and wont disrupt the traffic flow, or if there's very light traffic. Will always announce and update my intentions when doing so too. If it seems that convenience for me will cause true inconvenience for others, or it just wouldn't be safe, then I simply join the pattern and and take the extra 5-10 mins.
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yeah i mean thats how i see it too.. if its gonna screw anyones pattern up, ill just join the flow, but if i can time it right to get in there without causing anyone to have to do anything out of the ordinary... im gonna save myself the extra lap.

oh man, i also hate when other people arent listening in the pattern... like sure they make calls where THEY are, but they arent actually PROCESSING in their head what the OTHER people are saying...

i was coming in to a field the other day and had the right mental picture of what was going on, but lost sight of the traffic ahead of me so i asked "cherokee turning final, whats your position?"..... silence.

saw them turn off the runway about 20 seconds later.

GRRRRR.
 
Happened again today! Although not as close!!!!!!

This time, I am on my landing roll out, there is a CAP aircraft holding short waiting for me to clear the runway... so he can depart RWY 2L... As I am slow down, some joker rolls past the hold short line on to RWY 20R, again not talking to anyone, he sees me before he goes full power stops, and pulls over to side of the RWY. I tell the CAP aircraft there is an aircraft rolling 20R he said "Thanks for the heads up and he holds short, as soon as I clear of 2L, the other guy begins his roll out and takes off! Not talking to anyone!!! This time it was an Eurcoupe.

Cripes! :confused:
 
Yup, it sucks when people don't talk.

As far as straight-in and non-standard patterns, I don't mind so long as I hear the pilot's intentions before they get the the airport. More times than not I end up having someone enter on a base leg and not make any calls till on the base leg or even short final.
​
 
I do know, whenever it is I start instructing, flying at this aiport has taught me a great many things both positive and negetive.
 
Maurus said:
Yup, it sucks when people don't talk.

As far as straight-in and non-standard patterns, I don't mind so long as I hear the pilot's intentions before they get the the airport. More times than not I end up having someone enter on a base leg and not make any calls till on the base leg or even short final.
​
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Funny, We both know someone at the field that does have a problem doing just that.


:bandit:
 
I fly out of an uncontrolled field quite often and have seen some interesting things.

Have had many instances of an airplane not talking to anyone on the radio while in the pattern or approaching to land, flying the left traffic instead of right traffic (for noise), or overflying the field at pattern altitude without talking. Turning base to final at any airport I always check to make sure final is clear, and it has paid off a few times when I've spotted an airplane approaching unannounced.

I've also seen several formations of military helicopters overfly the field at or below pattern altitude without talking.

Like everyone else has said, it's imperitive that you remain very vigilant when operating around uncontrolled airports and always announce on CTAF. They aren't "bad" but I would say that there is a higher risk of an incident at an uncontrolled airport vs. a controlled.
 
Anytime in VMC your head needs to be on a swivel, controlled or uncontrolled....

Coming in from the south for runway 17, tower says enter right downwind (straight in for dw). At about four miles south I hear tower, "Westwind 123, runway 16 cleared for takeoff right turn northwest approved".

The WW slowly taxi's into position and delay's on the runway, finally on the roll. At this time I'm entering the right downwind and watching the WW thinking he will wait to turn until he is above me (TPA is 600AGL).

The WW is 100' off the ground and starts his right turn directly at me.

I had to grab the controls from the student, pull power and nose over into a very steep dive.

Once clear I hear tower say "oh sorry about that one". Nothing from the VFR jet.

I thought about reporting it to the manager but never did. I sure let the controller have it though.
 
SuperCubRick said:
I've also seen several formations of military helicopters overfly the field at or below pattern altitude without talking.
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Really? Not that I don't believe you - I do... it's just that every unit I've flown with if anything went overboard when overflying uncontrolled fields. We'd designated a chalk, usually chalk last, to do any CTAF calls along the route, and we were nearly always well above TPA and we'd make 10 mile, 3 mile, and over the field calls religiously.

What kind of helicopters were they? I assume they were from the 82nd or 3d ID based on your location.
 
Ian J said:
Really? Not that I don't believe you - I do... it's just that every unit I've flown with if anything went overboard when overflying uncontrolled fields. We'd designated a chalk, usually chalk last, to do any CTAF calls along the route, and we were nearly always well above TPA and we'd make 10 mile, 3 mile, and over the field calls religiously.

What kind of helicopters were they? I assume they were from the 82nd or 3d ID based on your location.
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In my experience working around Army aviation for the past 5 months; while they don't care much on the helo side for IFR ops, when it comes to VFR ops, these guys are well on top of things.....whether it be RTs/LZs, uncontrolled fields, or anything else related.
 
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