4 Raptors deploy to Korea

NovemberEcho said:
Their air defense systems are more worrisome, but still not state of the art. Mostly comprised of Sa-5 and Sa-7 systems.
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Along with the "metric crap ton" of AAA that is massed up there. They could fill the sky with barrage AAA that would make the Baghdad Super MEZ look weak.
 
If the Norks are smart, their focus will be primarily unconventional warfare, not force-on-force. Like I mentioned, get rid of most of the USAF tactical airpower on a single Friday night at the off base bars, which is no secret at all which ones specific squadrons have adopted. From there, that takes away the fixed wing CAS and OCA. The ROKAF may have similar.....hell for all we know there are Nork sleepers inside ROK squadrons. When I was there, something like the #4 or #5 guy in the Korean National Police was discovered to have been a North plant, having worked up from the ranks long ago of regular officer, after infiltrating in from the North.
 
Hacker15e said:
Along with the "metric crap ton" of AAA that is massed up there. They could fill the sky with barrage AAA that would make the Baghdad Super MEZ look weak.
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That's the thing. Their AAA/SAMs may be dated, but there is a massed crap load of it. And to date, all the kills of US aircraft from Vietnam onward due to SAMs, has been to the old stuff, not the newer double-digit stuff. Newest system that's shot down a US jet, if I remember correctly, is the Roland that took out Jim Ewald.
 
MikeD said:
About 16 or so years ago, I was an A-10 FAC based over there. Just south of the DMZ is the area known as P-518, within the DMZ buffer zone. We were allowed to work inside 518, and south of the buffer zone. So we'd do exercises in that area where I'd have fighter jets pushed to me to work at hitting simulated ground targets in the area. Normal day to day stuff.

One day, another FAC and I were working adjoining sectors about 15 miles apart. Our expected air was from a USN aircraft carrier (I forget which one specifically), and 2 sections of F/A-18s. About 30 minutes after arriving in my AO, a section of USN Hornets checks in with me, we go through the motions of their weapons/fuel lineup, me placing them into the area, giving them the lowdown/9-line/enhanced talk-on, they finding/fixing/IDing the targets, they commencing their attacks with clearance, me adjusting them for subsequent hits, they being done and heading back to the carrier, as I get their notional target damage assessments. No biggie. Just another day.
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Dude it was pizza night in the officers mess.......Too bad the enlisted from X-2 took all the pizza..... What division was I again...... <giggity>
 
MikeD said:
That's the thing. Their AAA/SAMs may be dated, but there is a massed crap load of it.
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Same goes for ground forces,

NK doesn't have enough fuel to make an unopposed road march to Pusan. However, Seoul is inside artillery range of thousands of NK guns. While the F-22s are shooting down all those Mig-21s, NK is shelling SK's capitol from fortified artillery emplacements causing thousands of casualties. Throw in a few short range missiles with dirty bomb warheads lobbed into Japan and our military response will be seriously crippled.

In short, NK can't threaten the US directly, but they can create a whole lot of pain and destruction in Asia.
 
JEP said:
Dude it was pizza night in the officers mess.......Too bad the enlisted from X-2 took all the pizza..... What division was I again...... <giggity>
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Wish I could've gone aboard. So I could wander down to the goat locker, have a seat, put my feet up, and help myself to their chow.

:D
 
USMCmech said:
Same goes for ground forces,

NK doesn't have enough fuel to make an unopposed road march to Pusan. However, Seoul is inside artillery range of thousands of NK guns. While the F-22s are shooting down all those Mig-21s, NK is shelling SK's capitol from fortified artillery emplacements causing thousands of casualties. Throw in a few short range missiles with dirty bomb warheads lobbed into Japan and our military response will be seriously crippled.

In short, NK can't threaten the US directly, but they can create a whole lot of pain and destruction in Asia.
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Do we not have the technology/capability to take that out with B2s?
 
JEP said:
Dude it was pizza night in the officers mess.......Too bad the enlisted from X-2 took all the pizza..... What division was I again...... <giggity>
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Unless you are a HOD, "pizza night" on the boat (in the wardroom) is literally half thawed frozen pizzas, at least these days. But you might as well eat it because you are writing a check for $350/month for food that the CS's can throw in a microwave while on deployment. Gone are the days when that money actually bought something worthwhile.
 
///AMG said:
Unless you are a HOD, "pizza night" on the boat (in the wardroom) is literally half thawed frozen pizzas, at least these days. But you might as well eat it because you are writing a check for $350/month for food that the CS's can throw in a microwave while on deployment. Gone are the days when that money actually bought something worthwhile.
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$350 better spent at the Gedunk shop me thinks
 
alaskadrifter said:
Do we not have the technology/capability to take that out with B2s?
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Think of torching off hostilities with North Korea like stomping on a fire ant hill. There will be people and iron flying everywhere at once.

It isn't something that the "one bomb, one target" precision mentality will be able to contain initially.

Eventually, of course, western forces would be able to annihilate the NK forces...but not until they've pulverized the entire peninsula the first couple days of the war.

Remember, this is a country who has several generations of citizens who are completely indoctrinated into the idea that they are the richest country in the world, and that the evil western countries are coming to steal it and enslave them. They are just like the Japanese of WWII, in that they believe in their cause with an almost insane level of zealotry. They are not well fed or well equipped, but they have rifles and are very willing to die for their cause en masse.
 
alaskadrifter said:
Do we not have the technology/capability to take that out with B2s?
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We don't have enough B-2s.

Take all 20 operational B-2s and load them with 16 2,000 lb smart bombs each, and you can (in theory) take out 320 hardened artillery emplacements. That leaves about 800 cannons blasting away raining steel on Seoul run by manpower alone. Then the B-2s have to fly back to Guam and reload which is a 18-24 hour operation. It could take weeks to silence all the guns along the DMZ.

Our military tech is powerful, but it as very real limitations.
 
Hacker15e said:
Think of torching off hostilities with North Korea like stomping on a fire ant hill. There will be people and iron flying everywhere at once.

It isn't something that the "one bomb, one target" precision mentality will be able to contain initially.

Eventually, of course, western forces would be able to annihilate the NK forces...but not until they've pulverized the entire peninsula the first couple days of the war.

Remember, this is a country who has several generations of citizens who are completely indoctrinated into the idea that they are the richest country in the world, and that the evil western countries are coming to steal it and enslave them. They are just like the Japanese of WWII, in that they believe in their cause with an almost insane level of zealotry. They are not well fed or well equipped, but they have rifles and are very willing to die for their cause en masse.
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In other words, it's going to have to get a lot worse before it gets better.
 
Seggy said:
Are their special forces really that good and infiltrated in South Korea? That part I find fascinating.

No one has mentioned China yet. They are the wild card in all of this how they keep the NKs in check or try to.

Also found this today...

http://ericlafforgue.com/wp-content/uploads/north-korean-delete-this.pdf
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Infiltrating the South is kind of a "final exam" for them. Others are detailed to remain as sleepers there. Hence the one that was caught in the very high position when I was there, I'm sure there are many many more.

The unconventional warfare capability of the NKs is indeed impressive such as their special ops forces. Those forces may not necessarily win the war, but they can sure harass/interdict/damage our operations in the South and affect us in that way to a very large degree. Combined with their conventional forces, life can become very difficult for a good while, incurring hefty losses on us that we weren't expecting.

It's seriously no joke, much as it may sound, that if the NKs really want to paralyze a US air base in the South, they just have to hit one of the bars the pilots party at on a Friday/Saturday night. No one to fly the planes, no US planes fly. Don't even need to destroy one plane. This is no secret, as I'm sure the NKs have known this for a very long time, and know which units frequent which bars off base.
 
MikeD said:
Infiltrating the South is kind of a "final exam" for them. Others are detailed to remain as sleepers there. Hence the one that was caught in the very high position when I was there, I'm sure there are many many more.
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That high level official that was caught, I understand NK is a cult, but was he really working at the time for the NK? Or did he see the light and defect? How was he in contact with the NK?

How do they infiltrate? If they don't come back to they then kill all the family left behind?

The unconventional warfare capability of the NKs is indeed impressive such as their special ops forces. Those forces may not necessarily win the war, but they can sure harass/interdict/damage our operations in the South and affect us in that way to a very large degree. Combined with their conventional forces, life can become very difficult for a good while, incurring hefty losses on us that we weren't expecting.

It's seriously no joke, much as it may sound, that if the NKs really want to paralyze a US air base in the South, they just have to hit one of the bars the pilots party at on a Friday/Saturday night. No one to fly the planes, no US planes fly. Don't even need to destroy one plane. This is no secret, as I'm sure the NKs have known this for a very long time, and know which units frequent which bars off base.
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How far away is Seoul from the NK border?
 
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