3 GPS Questions

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A good reason for doing this is flying with a database that's not current

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It's perfectly legit to fly IFR /G enroute with an expired database as long as you verify the waypoints (as long as they haven't been moved, as you stated). Why fly GPS along airways when you can fly GPS off-airway safely and legally?
 
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Why fly GPS along airways when you can fly GPS off-airway safely and legally?

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Oh, don't get me wrong...I'm all for it!!!
 
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you guys are a lot luckier than me. they never give me direct anything. i don't even bother to file it anymore

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Some controllers just won't do it. Memphis center gets soooo confused.

Me: "Any chance of Direct Montgomery?"

Center: "But you're a slant uniform"

Me: "Yeah, the database isn't updated, but we can go GPS direct...we're sure the airport hasn't been moved"

Center: "So, you're slant G today?"

Me: "Never mind, V49 will work..."
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Some controllers just won't do it. Memphis center gets soooo confused.

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Perhaps thats because you can file /G with an expired database? I'm not too sure myself, but I can't find anything that says you can't. Filing /G indicates the GPS has en route and terminal ability, NOT NECESSARILY approach capability (see excerpt below).

Here's what AC 90-94A says about databases:

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SECTION 4. AIRBORNE NAVIGATION DATABASES.

1. REQUIREMENT FOR A DATABASE.

To conduct IFR operations using GPS equipment to
navigate in the U.S. NAS and oceanic airspace, the aircraft GPS equipment must include an updatable
navigation database. That database will support en route and terminal operations; or en route, terminal,
and GPS nonprecision instrument approach operations. The database must
be current to fly GPS approaches and to use GPS in lieu of ADF and DME.

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I can't find anywhere in AC 90-94A, or in the FAR's that says the GPS has to be current for filing /G to use in the IFR en route environment, only for approaches.

Comments/Corrections?
 
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I can't find anywhere in AC 90-94A, or in the FAR's that says the GPS has to be current for filing /G to use in the IFR en route environment, only for approaches.

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Exactly right.

If you've got an expired database, just verify the key waypoint data and file GPS direct (according to the filing rules). Nobody gets confused, no surprises.

If you're not comfortable using expired/verified data, just file "old school" /U using VORs and use your GPS for situational awareness only.
 
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I can't find anywhere in AC 90-94A, or in the FAR's that says the GPS has to be current for filing /G to use in the IFR en route environment, only for approaches.

Comments/Corrections?

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Aeronautical Information Manual 1-1-20, section b-b

(1) In many recievers, an up-datable database is used for navigation fixes, airports, and instrument approaches. These databases must be maintained to the current update for IFR operation, but no such requiremenr exists for VFR use.


I think that would do it....unless someone else has another one. I had to dig for that one...it's in the section that deals with VFR use!!! How odd...
 
Oh my mistake. No one told me when the AIM became regulatory...
buck.gif


And besides, as AC 90-94 points out...that "IFR Operation" is approaches.
 
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Oh my mistake. No one told me when the AIM became regulatory...
buck.gif


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The same time Advisory Circulars did....
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I dunno, I'd be more inclined to go with the word of an Advisory Circular.

I'm not going to chew on my foot just yet..
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Doh!

mmmm....foot....not so tasty....
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It's all good...I've done it quite a few times too!!
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Crap, you beat me to it. I was trying to edit it before you replied again, lol.

I think being that the AC is more specific to GPS operations (and the AIM is just general info), I'd go with the AC.

I still don't see any reason not to file /G for IFR en route even if the database isn't current.

Guess this could be another FSDO question with 30 different answers.
 
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Guess this could be another FSDO question with 30 different answers.

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Yeah, I think that might be the only way to figure it out!! It's a good question, though.

It's funny, Memphis center doesn't want to give you direct unless you're /G, and Washington will give you direct Myrtle Beach from Norfolk, and if you don't have any RNAV capabilities (/U), they'll give you vectors!!

Weird, huh?
 
Why doesn't anyone file /India?

/I means you have a GPS that is not IFR certified but can still be used for off airway navigation, right?
 
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Why doesn't anyone file /India?

/I means you have a GPS that is not IFR certified but can still be used for off airway navigation, right?

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No, /I is an RNAV unit with Mode C transponder.
 
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Oh my mistake. No one told me when the AIM became regulatory...
buck.gif


And besides, as AC 90-94 points out...that "IFR Operation" is approaches.

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AC's may not be regulatory.....but go ahead and get yourself in trouble somehow and then try and explain to the FAA, their lawyers, and a federal judge why you didn't follow their recommended procedures!!! That wouldn't be too much fun
buck.gif
 
Another reason to file airways could be the MEA along a route. Flying a King Air C90 from KCPR (Casper, WY) to KJAC (Jackson, WY) our single engine service ceiling for our weight and current conditions (135 requirement) would put us below Grid MORA's everywhere except on the Victor airway. I think this is a common scenario in Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah.

Back on topic, I think this is the only weakness to the Garmin GPS series. Everything else, including frequencies and approaches, arrivals, and departures are only a click and turn away, but if you get a Victor Airway routing you really are out of luck. If it happens to be a common flight plan, you can preprogram the route in the second page of the flight plan menu.
 
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I can't find anywhere in AC 90-94A, or in the FAR's that says the GPS has to be current for filing /G to use in the IFR en route environment, only for approaches.

Comments/Corrections?
Aeronautical Information Manual 1-1-20, section b-b

(1) In many recievers, an up-datable database is used for navigation fixes, airports, and instrument approaches. These databases must be maintained to the current update for IFR operation, but no such requiremenr exists for VFR use.


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It's all explained in the AIM table 1-1-8 "GPS Approval Required/Authorized Use" including the statement that "IFR En Route ... Requires verification of data for correctness if database is expired."

Jergar999 makes a good point: flying IFR in the Western mountain states is a special case where airways would probably be more appropriate than GPS-direct over off-route terrain. Something to think about during flight-planning.
 
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Why doesn't anyone file /India?

/I means you have a GPS that is not IFR certified but can still be used for off airway navigation, right?

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John,

In the A-10, we file /I. Used to be /P, then /R. If all else failed, I just filed /A in the old days.

Still don't know why they "fixed" a designation system that was never broken.

Typical government.
 
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