2nd or 3rd class required?

tjvpa28

tjvpa28

Well-Known Member
61.23(a)(2) says "A person must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate"

61.23(a)(3)(iv) says "A person must hold at least a third-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate"

This question came up at my school the other day:
If an instructor is giving dual instruction, and acting PIC, and getting paid, isn't he exercising the privileges of both his commercial certificate AND his flight instructor certificate and therefore needs at least a second class medical? My answer was yes, you do need the 2nd class, but I was in the minority. I know that 61.23(b)(5) says a medical is not required if you are not acting PIC or serving as a required pilot crewmember. The question refers to instructing student pilots in which they can't act as PIC. Thanks!
 
tjvpa28 said:
61.23(a)(2) says "A person must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate"

61.23(a)(3)(iv) says "A person must hold at least a third-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate"

This question came up at my school the other day:
If an instructor is giving dual instruction, and acting PIC, and getting paid, isn't he exercising the privileges of both his commercial certificate AND his flight instructor certificate and therefore needs at least a second class medical? My answer was yes, you do need the 2nd class, but I was in the minority. I know that 61.23(b)(5) says a medical is not required if you are not acting PIC or serving as a required pilot crewmember. The question refers to instructing student pilots in which they can't act as PIC. Thanks!
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Third class, you are exercising your privileges of your flight instructor certificate (which technically doesn't require a medical). You are technically using private pilot privileges when acting as PIC with a student. Flight instruction is not considered "carrying passengers or property for hire" as the student is not considered a passenger per the FARs. This opens up a few other privileges for flight instructors.

This letter from the Chief Counsel (FAA) will clear it up for everyone.

With that said, if you you work at a 141 school and your TCO requires the instructor to have a second class medical, then make sure you have it. My school's TCO requires us to have a second class.
 
Maurus said:
Third class, you are exercising your privileges of your flight instructor certificate which technically doesn't require a medical, but you do need at least a third class for private students as you will be the acting PIC.

This letter from the Chief Counsel (FAA) will clear it up for everyone.

With that said, if you you work at a 141 school and your TCO requires the instructor to have a second class medical, then make sure you have it. My school's TCO requires us to have a second class.
Click to expand...

Ah, that letter does clear it up...we are not receiving compensation for acting PIC, we are receiving compensation for giving dual...thanks!
 
I've very thankful for this provision, since I have a disqualifying condition and can only obtain a 3rd class SI. Now if only ICAO would recognize what the FAA allows, I would be able to exit U.S. borders and perhaps a 2nd class med would be possible as well.

-A.S.
 
If your school gives sightseeing flights make sure you have a second class and are part of a drug screening program.
 
Consider: A commercial certificate is NOT required to receive compensation for providing instruction. Sport instructors are required only to hold at least a sport pilot certificate. Ground instructors need not hold any form of pilot certificate. In both cases, sport pilot instructors and ground instructors may be compensated for offering instruction within the privileges of their certificates. A medical is NOT required either.
 
I have a question. Say you are a experienced aerobatic pilot without a CFI though. Can you still teach people to fly aerobatics or do you need that CFI?
 
Jbroz04 said:
I have a question. Say you are a experienced aerobatic pilot without a CFI though. Can you still teach people to fly aerobatics or do you need that CFI?
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You do not need a CFI to teach aerobatics. Aerobatic instruction is not required training.
 
Blackhawk said:
You do not need a CFI to teach aerobatics. Aerobatic instruction is not required training.
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It wont be dual given as you can not log it as such. Also only one person in the aircraft would be logging PIC.

Now an aerobatic instructor(without CFI) would need a commercial certificate and a second class medical to receive compensation. The client will be a passenger, not a student whenever the "instructor" takes the controls.
 
now if the aerobatic instructor had a cfi they would only need a third or is it different because its not required training?
 
If the CFI is PIC then he will need a third. If the "student" can act PIC then the CFI doesn't need a medical at all. It not being required training doesn't affect it.
 
Marus, do you have the specific reg that states a student is not a passenger when giving dual? I.E., does an instructor have to be "night current" to give dual instruction at night (to a student pilot for example)?

Thanks
 
Maurus said:
Now an aerobatic instructor(without CFI) would need a commercial certificate and a second class medical to receive compensation. The client will be a passenger.
Click to expand...
Actually, just to pick a nit, the aerobatic instructor is not acting in any "commercial pilot" capacity. The pilot learning is not a "passenger", he is logging pilot manipulating the controls time as allowed in 61.51. Any kind of instruction to a rated pilot, other than flight instruction required for certification/currency/etc., can be given by anybody that has a marketable skill or knowledge in any specialized area, including flight training.
 
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