2 year CFI at ATP

L

Louie1975

Well-Known Member
Hi folks:
Just looking for some honest feedback regarding those in the know about the following:

There is something on the website about 2 year CFIs getting 3000/month(in other words, if you have held a CFI cert. for 2 years and given 200 hours dual). I would guess this would be for being able to train initial CFI applicants.

I am an outside CFI with about 900 TT and about 500 dual given. I think ATP would be a great 'next step' as I want to learn to teach properly in twins.

Please advise. Thanks!
 
from what i could tell you would be working with the cfi applicants. they are trying to standardize their cfi schooling and what to get as many 2 years as possible. you will get all multi flying so i would give it a shot. best of luck.
 
I have a few comments on this issue. First and foremost you will be working with the ACP students who are going for their initial CFI. Therefore you will only get a chance to fly with them for roughly 5 hours AT MOST. In some circumstances you will only being doing their recommendation ride in which you will fly with them for only about 1.5 hours. In addition ATP will give you pressure to sign all these students off for their checkrides even if you feel they need more training. Most likely you're pass rate will and could suffer due to this. There was a guy who was the 2 year in JAX who just took a new job with Gulfstream to get out due to the FAA looking into his mass sign offs and a high failure rate. There were speculations that he was going to have his ticket pulled. However before this could happen they had him teaching private multi to keep the attention off of him.

I have a buddy who was in DAB and was considering this position as well. However he took great pride in his pass rate (95% and higher). He and I both knew when discussing if he should pursue this position knew the pressure we always had to sign students off. We also knew the crap we got when we refused to sign students off. When that happen they would send our students to another CFI and have them sign them off. There were a few CFI's who would care less about their pass rate as long as they got their bonus and or multi time.

I really would consider this position in detail before contacting ATP about it. I personlly would recommend against it however I do not know what you want to pursue and what your goals are. Many out there will say go for it. However having inside knowledge of how things run and not being too far removed from working for ATP I would have to recommend against such a position.
 
Ditto. I would think long and hard about it. During my time at ATP the 2yr CFI spot seemed like the worst jobi n the place save for being a Private instructor. Life at ATP is a grind. That alone would keep me from working there.
 
I'd definately do it. I worked at ATP for more than a year before moving on. There are some really good people to work with there. One thing people complain about is that most instructors work 7 days a week for low pay (they forget that many people only do it for a few months until they move on). If I'm not mistaken you get weekends and vacation time off with that job. Your also not considered a contractor so they take care of you a little better. It would be a great way to get established in the company, some multi time and as in my case they were very understanding when I decided to move on to an airline.
 
meyers9163 said:
In addition ATP will give you pressure to sign all these students off for their checkrides even if you feel they need more training. Most likely you're pass rate will and could suffer due to this. There was a guy who was the 2 year in JAX who just took a new job with Gulfstream to get out due to the FAA looking into his mass sign offs and a high failure rate.
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This is why Frank V seems like such an #######, it because he has to be. He cant be your friend. He has to give it to you straight. I saw many people not get the sign off by ole' Franky. His pass rate is 80%. He showed us his stack of 8710s and its nuts.

My favorite quote from Frank on my 2nd Frank flight:

"You have about a 50% chance in passing this checkride." In the most SERIOUS face I have ever seen.

-Rob
 
amorris311 said:
rob you should give frank a call. his pass rate has dropped a bit from that 80%.
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It doesnt matter... He's a full blown ATP guy.... OMG FRANK IS AMAZING..... Maybe that's how it is in Vegas and when you work for ATP you know more.... I can tell ya this much during standarization they were speaking of firing a certain instructor oh in a dry climate..... Due to his inability to sign some students off..... Hmmm do we not call that pressure to sign them off regardless? I dunno I'm just speaking from experience and working at the place. I would HIGHLY recommend against it.
 
I have been a CFI/CFII at my current school for about a year. I missed the boat with multi time because I just got my MEI over Christmas break. So now I am just getting 3 new privates and do not think it is worth it to sit here for 6 months to put them through private and instrument to get them to comm-multi. Additionally the school has issues.

I love flying around the patch. I was in a state of bliss when I did my tailwheel endorsement. But after a few hundred hours you realize that except for remaining a career CFI, flying 'round the patch with a primary student doesn't do much as far as skill development for future flying jobs is concerned.

My future plans include possible international ferry pilot, probably one day airline. But I am in no rush for the airlines. At this time I really just want to develope the skills of the CFI craft. And it is time to learn to teach Multi.
 
I would say that being a 2 year CFI at ATP really isnt as bad as these guys make it sound. i worked at ATP for a year, and its a really a pretty cush CFI gig. You get to essentially make your own schedule. You do what it takes to get the students trained and sometimes that takes a 7 day a week 12 hour a day commitment, but youre in charge of when you fly. In other words they make sure you have airplanes and students, then they leave it up to you to get the students trained and out the door. Unless you dont get anything done, they pretty much leave you alone to do your job. Its nice really.

As a 2 year, teaching CFI applicants would probably require less time at the airport and most likely would follow more of a 9-5 monday-friday type of schedule. There wont be any XC time for the most part and youll be teaching CFI ground school. Other than that, you do basically the same thing as any other CFI...except you will be sitting in the left seat. I think this position will be the best for you to become a great CFI and get loads of multi time. The pay aint bad either since they have a pretty good comision system on top of base pay.
 
Louie1975 said:
I have been a CFI/CFII at my current school for about a year. I missed the boat with multi time because I just got my MEI over Christmas break. So now I am just getting 3 new privates and do not think it is worth it to sit here for 6 months to put them through private and instrument to get them to comm-multi. Additionally the school has issues.

I love flying around the patch. I was in a state of bliss when I did my tailwheel endorsement. But after a few hundred hours you realize that except for remaining a career CFI, flying 'round the patch with a primary student doesn't do much as far as skill development for future flying jobs is concerned.

My future plans include possible international ferry pilot, probably one day airline. But I am in no rush for the airlines. At this time I really just want to develope the skills of the CFI craft. And it is time to learn to teach Multi.
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So how much ME time do you have? I assume you have your II obviously and your MEI? I dunno, my thought is just there are a billion of places you can go and instruct at a local FBO in a multi and not put up with the BS of ATP admin and the crap you deal with as a 2 year CFI. I am more so speaking because I was close to the 2 year that just left JAX and am currently close to the guy who was hired to replace him. In addition one of my other buddies was the 2 year at the ATL location and I KNOW what they say after the 9-5. I really think its different having the knowledge of what those CFI's had to say about the job. In addition seeing it 1st hand the crap they had to go with and deal with. Plain and simple its not worth it. If you are all willing to move why not give Van a call and see about White Aviation or even Skymates and get a job down there with them. Two of which are sponors on here. Let alone I can give you a list of a number of FBO's with jobs and looking for CFI's.......

Final word is just REALLY consider things.... Honestly look at the number of people saying be careful..... I just think that speaks for itself.
 
stanfordflying said:
Did the guys you know not like the job? Was it a lot more than 9-5. What about a location other than JAX?
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If you are a two year CFI you are a CFI at a location that has CFI school. Now they have 2 year CFI's in JAX, ATL, Dallas, and PHX. Those are the only locations we have. I do not know of the 2 year CFI's personally in Dallas or PHX. However as I said before I knew personally the 2 years out of ATL and JAX. And also its not a 9-5 job. Typically you will start flying around 7am-5pm for this job. You are out of your mind if you think youw ill be done by 5 also. You are now a 2 year CFI you will shadow Walt and not only do flying but help with ground school. Anyone else wanting to comment should look over what the new two year gig really is. Its not JUST flying.... You are much more then that. You are assisting with ground schools, doing some flying and putting VERY long hours in. Its most definately not a 9-5 position.
 
meyers9163 said:
Now they have 2 year CFI's in JAX, ATL, Dallas, and PHX. Those are the only locations we have.
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And Vegas. If they ditch Frank because he isnt signing people off then thats cool. But more people WILL bust. Frank knows the DEs and FAA Examiners. He knows what to touch on. Next thing you know the 2 year CFI at Vegas is going to get a 709 ride because he has too many failures.

-Rob
 
Meyers means well but he is off base big time. You will always find people that love it and people that hate it. There is only one thing for you to do: Contact one of the 2 year CFI's at JAX and talk to them. I know one of them who worked with the one who just left for Gulfstream. He is in the position now as well as Standardization. He talked like it was the best job he had ever had and will talk to you- his name is Matt. He was my CFI for my initial. Call 904-641-9281 which is the ATP JAX number and just ask. He will shoot straight with ya, then make your own call. Good Luck!


PS- as an active CFI for ATP I have NEVER felt the pressure to sign off anyone. I am always told to suggest more training if it is needed. Not sure what ATP these guys worked for sometimes...:confused:
 
checksix said:
PS- as an active CFI for ATP I have NEVER felt the pressure to sign off anyone. I am always told to suggest more training if it is needed. Not sure what ATP these guys worked for sometimes...:confused:
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Just curious, have you ever actually recommended more training? I never had to, but I wonder what it would actually be like.
 
My two cents:

I had a few students when I was instructing there that I did not feel were ready to take the checkride when the time came. I spoke with the students directly about it and 'ATP' wasn't even involved until the time came to buy more training time or explain why the checkride was never taken. If you don't think they'll pass, don't sign 'em off, easy as that.
That being said, I was not training initial instructors out of the ACPP under the watchfull eyes of the powers that be in Jax. I can imagine there would be a bit more explaining to do in that atmosphere. The bottom line is if your student isn't checkride ready don't sign em off. The ACPP has some additional hours built in for failed checkrides that can be used prior to the checkride if need be. And if they guy or gal has already used up the additional time on failed rides then he/she probably has a foot out the door already and 'ATP' will be on your side.
Take the job and start racking up the Multi-time... thats my vote.
If its something you don't like go elsewhere. Its a CFI's market right now.
 
Clocks,
Yeah I have. The trick is to have notes in their file ahead of time. That way you are backed up. Then I tell them what they need to do to pass, make a phone call to the "powers that be" and voila, they buy more time or quit. I have had two buy more time- no one has quit. And both passed on their first attempt after the bought time. Felt good to be vindicated.:D
 
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