2 Tiers


New Member
How about having a two tiered pay scale for CFI's? Federal controllers had that for a few years, and it didnt go very well. What will happen to ATP and schools like this after the 1500 hour min goes into effect? Discuss...:confused:
Well I am not against the 1500 hour rule nor for it. But look at it this way. Part 135 requires 1200 hours of flight time to be PIC. So what the big difference for the airlines to raise theirs too. I say instead of 1500 make it 1200 to match part 135 guys.
Part 135 has less requirements than part 121. You only need 1200 hours to be PIC in 135, you need an ATP in 121. Either way you can be SIC with just a commercial pilot's license in either 121 or 135. Of course, the only reason I'd want a SIC in my airplane is if I could make him load it... :p
I understand you need the ATP to be captain but I'm talking about entry level airlines jobs as a FO. Why not raise it to 1200?
How about this question; What will pilot mills' sales pitch be with a 1500 hour minimum to work for a carrier? Please discuss.
I don't know of many mom n pop fbo's that only cater to the people who want to pay too much for their training and get treated like crap along the way...so they shouldn't have to say anything.
I think problem at hand is the fact there are X number of pilots for Y number of positions. Right now, Y is less than X. It will most likely be that way for a long time if not forever.

The catch 22 is that aviation as an industry is a vital service needed for everyday business to succeed. I don't know the current numbers, but from everything I have read, heard, gossiped about is the fact that the median age of pilots in this country is over 40, possibly 50. There are more pilots retiring from commercial jobs than there are us young pilots obtaining their commercials. Now, I may be wrong, but there needs to be a way for us to obtain the training, skill sets and knowledge required to replace these vital positions without putting us all in a proverbial black hole of lifetime debt.

I dished out $65k last summer for ATPs zero to hero program. And it was alot of fun, alot of time in the air and I learned alot. ATP said a lot of things to alot of people to get into the program. I started up in March, and there still were FO jobs right out of school. But by the time May/June hit, things dried up, Gas was 4$ a gal, and things looked pretty bad.

I know a few folks who opted to leave the program and they got hurt hard financially by the ATP accountants. Aka 30k for a PMEL and a IR...granted it was partly their fault, but still. I even thought about it. I finished the program, got my CFI licenses.

But here, almost a year later I still have not been able to find work as a pilot. I have looked throughout the Midwest. Some of the guys I went to ATP with are in the same position I am, 65k$ loan with no flying job to pay for it. At the time, with the economy where it was, the hiring where it was it was a good choice to drop that amount of money for training/chasing the dream. Now? Today if you asked me the same questions I asked myself in Febuary of 08, I would tell you a different story.

As of yet, ATP hasn't helped, or offered to help the folks who graduated their program with finding work. I haven't dropped 2500$ into the regional jet training program, so that is the excuse they use to not helping us find something. The question about being hired by ATP as an instructor. How big is the list now? 70 people? 100 people?

Anyways, my suggestion to anybody who wants to go to a school such as ATP, etc for fast training. Weigh your options.

Your not going to find too many jobs out there who will hire you at 250 hrs, especially when you see here there are guys with 4 times the hours, type ratings and actual experience outside of the training environment.

Talk to your FBO, see what they can do for you. Work and fly at the same time. If you have your private, get your IR locally. Beyond that its just time building for your commercial and CFI. Multi-engine time is cool and all, but in the end, a lot of flight schools will help you get your PMEL, MEI after some time in.

Do what is right for you, for your family. This industry is hard enough to get into let alone have to have a large bag of debt hanging over your head.
Aviation goes in cycles. When I first started flying I remember a flier that was hanging at my local flight school from comuteair saying all you needed was a GED and a CMEL. Now things are slow. Wait for the economy to pick back up and from what I have been told by a few guys who fly for expressjet is that hiring will pick back up again. I mean there is hiring going on now its just far and few between. Part of the problem I think is too many guys have SJS. I saw a few guys who finished well before me pass up part 135 jobs because they wanted to fly jets and now they are furloughed and their part 135 counter parts are still flying. I think part 121 will always have more pilots than positions because every one for some reason seems to want to be a airline captain and wear the uniform. When you look at the 135 and 91 jobs I think right now there is more pilots than positions but I would bet that when hiring is normal they have a hard time finding pilots because everyone wants to fly a jet. I think alot of people only focus on getting a airline job and forget about all the part 135 jobs and GA jobs such as AG etc.