160th SOAR and AF pararescue

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BCTAv8r

Well-Known Member
Are they on par as far as flight experience goes? Since they both deal with special ops, do they learn similar tactics? Not looking for in-depth info. Just been reading Night Stalkers and was wondering about AF helos.:pirate:
 
Ask the customers (Special Forces, SEALs, etc), and most will tell you if they are in a tight spot they want to know the 160th is coming to get them. NSDQ.
 
I'm a bit confused with your question. Are you trying to compare a special ops aviation regiment with an Air Force special operations career field? That would make absolutely no sense. I'm assuming you are trying to compare the SOAR with USAF CSAR or Combat Search and Rescue, which are normally flown by HH-60G Pavehawk and HC-130 King Crews.

Pararescuemen or PJ's are medics (on crack) who specialize in personnel recovery in hostile or denied areas. More recently they've also been doing medevac missions in A-stan, as well as humanitarian missions throughout the world (mudslides in Philippines, Hurricane Katrina, etc)

I was a maintainer, not a flyer so I really can't answer your question other than correcting your verbage.
 
Mikey_G said:
I'm a bit confused with your question. Are you trying to compare a special ops aviation regiment with an Air Force special operations career field? That would make absolutely no sense. I'm assuming you are trying to compare the SOAR with USAF CSAR or Combat Search and Rescue, which are normally flown by HH-60G Pavehawk and HC-130 King Crews.

Pararescuemen or PJ's are medics (on crack) who specialize in personnel recovery in hostile or denied areas. More recently they've also been doing medevac missions in A-stan, as well as humanitarian missions throughout the world (mudslides in Philippines, Hurricane Katrina, etc)

I was a maintainer, not a flyer so I really can't answer your question other than correcting your verbage.
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You're right, my question was unclear.

The question is, talking specifically about helicopter flying, do AF helo pilots (who I assume all support the special ops side much like the 160th does) get similar training to what 160th pilots get?

Are AF helo pilots trained to the standards of the 160th, considering they have a special ops role? (assuming combat sar is considered special ops).
 
BCTAv8r said:
You're right, my question was unclear.

The question is, talking specifically about helicopter flying, do AF helo pilots (who I assume all support the special ops side much like the 160th does) get similar training to what 160th pilots get?

Are AF helo pilots trained to the standards of the 160th, considering they have a special ops role? (assuming combat sar is considered special ops).
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There's really no easy way to answer that. AF CSAR helos and the 160th have different missions altogther. CSAR is about locating and recovering isolated personnel while the 160th is focused on insertion/extraction and support of special operators on the ground. What they have in common is being able to get in and out of hostile areas without either being detected or getting shot down. In that respect, their training in low-level tactical operations is very similar. Could an HH-60G insert/extract operators? Sure. Can and have. Could a 160th crew find and pickup a downed aircrew? Sure. Can and have. The difference lies in what each group is equipped and more specifically trained to do. The training standards are built to support each group's particular mission. So while both are capable of doing the same thing, each is performing these tasks towards a different objective.

Make sense? Or did I just make it more confusing?
 
The Fez said:
There's really no easy way to answer that. AF CSAR helos and the 160th have different missions altogther. CSAR is about locating and recovering isolated personnel while the 160th is focused on insertion/extraction and support of special operators on the ground. What they have in common is being able to get in and out of hostile areas without either being detected or getting shot down. In that respect, their training in low-level tactical operations is very similar. Could an HH-60G insert/extract operators? Sure. Can and have. Could a 160th crew find and pickup a downed aircrew? Sure. Can and have. The difference lies in what each group is equipped and more specifically trained to do. The training standards are built to support each group's particular mission. So while both are capable of doing the same thing, each is performing these tasks towards a different objective.

Make sense? Or did I just make it more confusing?
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Thanks Fez. Makes perfect sense.
 
I've flown with former Nightstalker pilots. Turned wrenches with former Nightstalker crewchiefs.

I'd bet my life on their skills any day.
 
MikeD said:
Agree.

If I'm not mistaken, you don't select them; they select you.
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Pretty much. I know that on the enlisted side of the house, you can apply. I think the same is with pilots.

I know there's a selection process, though, like Special Forces. They call it 'Green Platoon'.

If you don't make it, you don't get in. You can't just be a part of that unit because you've got a friend in Reassignment at the Pentagon.
 
I read in the book "None Braver" that 160th SOAR pilots were EMT certified. Anyone know if this is true?
 
Blackhawk said:
At the time I was in the regiment this was not the case, although we did go through the combat lifesaver course.
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Hmmm, that might have been what the book said. I'll have to check. The only reason this stood out to me was because I couldn't figure out how training pilots as EMT's was of any exceptional value. Their main job would be to pilot the aircraft right? Unless they had crashed or had landed the helo and were acting as a casualty collection point, they'd need all their limbs on the controls. Combat lifesaver I can understand, but EMT seems like a bit much.
 
The Fez said:
Hmmm, that might have been what the book said. I'll have to check. The only reason this stood out to me was because I couldn't figure out how training pilots as EMT's was of any exceptional value. Their main job would be to pilot the aircraft right? Unless they had crashed or had landed the helo and were acting as a casualty collection point, they'd need all their limbs on the controls. Combat lifesaver I can understand, but EMT seems like a bit much.
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Much of the training dealt with the possibility of being shot down- combat lifesaver, close combat skills, small arms, etc.
 
The Fez said:
Hmmm, that might have been what the book said. I'll have to check. The only reason this stood out to me was because I couldn't figure out how training pilots as EMT's was of any exceptional value. Their main job would be to pilot the aircraft right? Unless they had crashed or had landed the helo and were acting as a casualty collection point, they'd need all their limbs on the controls. Combat lifesaver I can understand, but EMT seems like a bit much.
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I'm an EMT pilot. So what are you saying Fez? :D
 
Blackhawk said:
Much of the training dealt with the possibility of being shot down- combat lifesaver, close combat skills, small arms, etc.
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That makes sense. In my experience the EMT gig was much more suited to being performed in the helicopter or in a non-combat ground environment.

MikeD said:
I'm an EMT pilot. So what are you saying Fez? :D
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Hey man, if you can fly a helo while inserting an IV and stabilizing a patient, more power to ya.
 
BCTAv8r said:
You flew for the 160th?
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Yes. But just to clarify, I did nothing heroic or of note while I was there. I got some great training, flew and worked with some great people (both pilots and enlisted), then decided to pursue a career on the outside.
 
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