135 XC Definition?


Well-Known Member
Stupid question, but I cant find a specific reference in the FAR's.

I have been told that for meeting minimum requirements for PIC flying 135, XC time is the basic definition (landing at any airport other than the one you started at and using some sort of navigation to get there.) Is this correct and if it is can anyone direct me to a specific FAR?
I've heard that before too. The only thing I can find is under 61.1. It says except as provided in (b)(3)(ii, iii, iv, v), time acquired during a flight....<snip>....c.) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure.

Now, (b)(3)(ii, iii, iv, v) all begin with...."For the purpose of meeting aeronautical experience requirements" [for Private, Commercial, ATP, etc.]. So, my interpretation would be that since you're not using it toward a certificate, you can count any time flown to other airports toward 135 requirements. Now, I don't think I would log it as such, just to keep things organized, because to build XC time for your ATP, the distance DOES have to be 50nm. What I'm going to do, is just go through my logbook and total up the time for any flight that I went to another airport, and use that as my total XC time when I start sending out my resume to 135 operations. Meanwhile, I take my students to the airport 15nm away to do practice landings so I can technically use that as my total XC for 135 mins.

Anyone else have a different take?
That is my take on it, but Im not sure if the Def. in 61 applies to 135. Im just setting up Logbook Pro on my computer and trying to decide if I should add a "135 XC" column based on that kind of XC. BTW I never checked out the old Logbook Pro program, but the new version is really a sweet program for this kind of stuff. I used a friends copy of Flightlevel 2000 for a while, but this program is much more customizable.
That is my take on it, but Im not sure if the Def. in 61 applies to 135.

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Good point...didnt think of that. Maybe I'll give the local FSDO a call tomorrow and see what they think.
FAR 61.1 defines cc time: by a pilot, in an aircraft, landing at a point other than point of departure, involves use of dead reckoning, pilotage, radio aids or other nav system (This is pretty stupid as you had to find your way there somehow. I guess if you got lost it doesn't count.) 61.1 goes on to say that for the private, commercial and instrument ratings you must go 50nm and land. For the ATP there is no landing requirement. This is for the B-52 guys that fly for 24 hours to bomb something and return home without ever landing.

FAR 135.243 list PIC requirements for part 135. For IFR you need 1200 hrs total time, including 500 cc, 100 night, 75 actual or simulated instrument with 50 in actual flight.

Notice that there is no distance listed for cc time. So...anything to another airport where a landing occurred counts as cc time. Also note that you can use 25 hours of FTD (Frasca) time as simulated instrument time since only 50 must be in actual flight (it does not say actual IFR, so hood time counts for the 50 in flight).
anon has it right!! For Part 135 aero experience requirements, there's nothing that stipulates a 50 mile trip!
We had a CFI move up to our charter department and to meet the 135 mins. started counting any flight to another airport. Whether that was legit...
It was funny I used to count the 50 mile thing, when I went to a 135 op I went back and changed all the flights that landed at a different point than that of departure. thankfully I use a computer spreadsheet logbook program.

Where is becomes clear that the 25 or 50 mile thing has no value other than for your ratings, is look at the Multi Comml rating. your xcntrys need to be 100 miles there.
Also note that you can use 25 hours of FTD (Frasca) time as simulated instrument time

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Ack. Now this brings up another question! I have about 30 hrs of Frasca of which close to 25 is instrument stuff from when I was working on my initial rating. When I logged this I was told not to indicate that it was simulated instrument time. (Though I did indicate the number of approaches, holds, etc.) So for 135 requirments I can tally up to 25hrs of the instrument Frasca time and add that to the total simulated inst. time?
My instructor told me that the Part 135 x/c requirement was 25 miles with a landing... but, I forget where he got that from.

I'll ask tonight.
You do not log frasca as simulated instrument (hood) time. Hood time is only for flight time. You can count all the Frasca time as instrument time even the stuff you did practicing VFR maneuvers and procedures. This is because the Frasca is technically an instrument trainer. The few hours you have doing VFR stuff don't make much difference in the overall total anyway. So yes the 25 hours you did count.

As far a going back and redoing your log book, I am not sure if this is necessary. Unless you have your ATP, I would not advise this as you do need 50 nm flights for this. After that it probably does not matter. Some more experienced pilots would have to comment on this, but I do not think the amount of CC time usually comes up in an interview once you have your ATP. I would think it would be more what type of flying you did, and it what type of equipment.
As a future airline pilot, when I log time, I allways look at it from a "what do the airlines think" point of view. Of course, being legal comes first, but after that I do what the airlines want. Speaking of that, what do the airlines think about logging both dual recieved and Pic at the same time? Legal yes (so long as you are rated in the cat/class), but airline approved?