135 SIC what can I log

Even if your company has the autopilot exemption for SICs, if the company requires an SIC per their manual, you become a required crew member and can log time as such.

As SIC, log it as such plus the condition of flight (night, XC, turbine, and instrument).

Came here to say exactly this. My last company operated single pilot aircraft with a crew, and it was logable SIC time because the opspecs required the additional crew member.
 
The internet is not the place to answer your specific question.
It is a great place to shop around for general opinions, but does not hold one tiny speck of legal authority.
 
Just to add to the discussion, our 135 pax metroliner operation requires two pilots because the Navy DOD contract we fly under requires it, even though the metroliner can fly single pilot with A/P. So sometimes it can be more than just the FAA regs.
 
Just to add to the discussion, our 135 pax metroliner operation requires two pilots because the Navy DOD contract we fly under requires it, even though the metroliner can fly single pilot with A/P. So sometimes it can be more than just the FAA regs.

I wonder, however, if the SIC can actually log SIC time when it is not required by an FAA controlled document (OpSpec or other). Any aerial mapping company can write a contract for a Cessna 172 requiring a SIC and a flight engineer to sit in the back and monitor the engine noise. They can put it in all of the training documents, and require it to be followed. The FAA, however, is not likely to allow a SIC and a FE to log time in a C172.

Just because a DOD contract requires it, it may not be legal to log it.
 
I wonder, however, if the SIC can actually log SIC time when it is not required by an FAA controlled document (OpSpec or other). Any aerial mapping company can write a contract for a Cessna 172 requiring a SIC and a flight engineer to sit in the back and monitor the engine noise. They can put it in all of the training documents, and require it to be followed. The FAA, however, is not likely to allow a SIC and a FE to log time in a C172.

Just because a DOD contract requires it, it may not be legal to log it.

As was mentioned earlier, the 135 regs require two pilots or an A/P and single-pilot type rating for multiengine turbine aircraft. Our aircraft are not A/P equipped so SIC is req crew member and therefore can log it as such. IMC, night, and XC are all conditions that are present for both pilots regardless of PF/PM so therefore they can both log it as well.

I was just illustrating an example of when a company might choose to opt out of installing A/P and running a two man crew, such as a contract requirement.

Also, this might be apples to oranges compared to your situation because our captains are not single-pilot typed in the planes therefore they cant "go single pilot if they need to" ... if i dont show nobody goes anywhere.
 
I wonder, however, if the SIC can actually log SIC time when it is not required by an FAA controlled document (OpSpec or other). Any aerial mapping company can write a contract for a Cessna 172 requiring a SIC and a flight engineer to sit in the back and monitor the engine noise. They can put it in all of the training documents, and require it to be followed. The FAA, however, is not likely to allow a SIC and a FE to log time in a C172.

Just because a DOD contract requires it, it may not be legal to log it.

As @SteveC pointed out, 135.101 is pretty clear.

Except as provided in § 135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.
 
Just to add to the discussion, our 135 pax metroliner operation requires two pilots because the Navy DOD contract we fly under requires it, even though the metroliner can fly single pilot with A/P. So sometimes it can be more than just the FAA regs.
The Metro only requires one pilot per the type Certificate, however the certificate says that the AFM may be more restrictive. The Metros I flew had an AFM entry requiring the SIC for Passenger operations.

Also, satisfying a Navy requirement does meet the criteria set forth by the FAA for logging SIC in a single pilot aircraft. An SIC must be required by FAA regulation for the ability to log SIC.
 
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My main question is that what other time can I log aside from SIC time? I know that if I am not the pilot flying I cannot log "actual instrument" time when in IMC, or approaches, or landings, but does that apply to XC, night, and turbine time also?
The only things you are not allowed to log as an SIC when you are the Pilot Monitoring are items that are required for currency. Instrument Approaches and T/O-Landings require you to be the Pilot Flying. Log everything else (IMC, Turbine, SE or ME time, ect ect) along with SIC when in a legit SIC role.
 
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Just log the time....and value the experience. There is common sense.....then there is some stupid regulation that doesn't include common sense. just because some book says something doesn't mean jack.....a lot of the FARs only help those who lack common sense to think for themselves. When I started in this business...I logged sic as a non required crew member....no one questioned anything nor did they give a crap.
 
The answer is very straightforward and simple. If FAR 61.51 authorizes you to log time, you may log it. You may need to look at other regs if logging has a condition such as the common "more than one pilot is required... " (see @SteveC answer) but that is the essence. Read the reg; it's not that hard.

Logging other time than that, such as non-qualifying SIC to show experience for a future job is usually ok, so long as you clearly identify it as not being for FAA certificate, rating , currency or other qualification purposes.
 
The answer is very straightforward and simple. If FAR 61.51 authorizes you to log time, you may log it. You may need to look at other regs if logging has a condition such as the common "more than one pilot is required... " (see @SteveC answer) but that is the essence. Read the reg; it's not that hard.

Logging other time than that, such as non-qualifying SIC to show experience for a future job is usually ok, so long as you clearly identify it as not being for FAA certificate, rating , currency or other qualification purposes.
What is your opinion on this paragraph? This is from the letter @Acrofox posted, http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...009/nichols - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf

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Specifically, the last sentence. Seems contradictory to my understanding of the 135 regs.
 
135.105 allows a 135 IFR passenger flight to be operated single pilot (unless there is some other requirement for two pilots) if there is an autopilot. Since only one pilot is required in that situation, no SIC logging is permitted if the autopilot is used.

What is my opinion? 135.101 adds a safety factor to IFR passenger flights. The implicit discouraging of the additional safety benefits of an autopilot by not permitting SIC logging is stupid. But I don't get to officially interpret the rules.
 
Just to add to the discussion, our 135 pax metroliner operation requires two pilots because the Navy DOD contract we fly under requires it, even though the metroliner can fly single pilot with A/P. So sometimes it can be more than just the FAA regs.

Never saw a Metro with an Autopilot...
 
The Alaska FSDO's are now taking line that you can have the ops spec for AP for IFR passenger service or a 2 pilot crews, no mix matching.
 
135.105 allows a 135 IFR passenger flight to be operated single pilot (unless there is some other requirement for two pilots) if there is an autopilot. Since only one pilot is required in that situation, no SIC logging is permitted if the autopilot is used.

What is my opinion? 135.101 adds a safety factor to IFR passenger flights. The implicit discouraging of the additional safety benefits of an autopilot by not permitting SIC logging is stupid. But I don't get to officially interpret the rules.
I agree. An interpretation that discourages a safe operating practice is asinine.

The Alaska FSDO's are now taking line that you can have the ops spec for AP for IFR passenger service or a 2 pilot crews, no mix matching.

Repeat my previous comment.

@MidlifeFlyer is there a method to give feedback about Letters of Interpretation to the Administrator?
 
So then they are also issuing MEL's with no option to defer the autopilot
Its on our MEL, but with no SIC ops spec we are unable to use it. We have two Van's set up for single pilot only, blank panels on the right side. When we got our third we kept the autopilot but wanted to set it up for 2 pilots so we could hire guys without the 100hr make and model for single pilot IFR, and let them ride SIC. The FAA came back with the interpretation that we could go with a SIC program, but SIC's would be required in ALL 3 airplanes for ever IFR flight.
 
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