135 SIC Time

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Let me repeat:

135 regs require two pilots per aircraft!

The exemption allows one pilot to fly with a working and approved autopilot. It doesn't say anywhere that you can't have an SIC and an autopilot at the same time.

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I want to know where you got this information.



JT, please elaborate.....because I know Alpine Air (a friend flies for them) says that none of their 1900's have an autopilot.

I also know of several other 135 operators that fly single pilot without an autopilot.
 
I cut-and-pasted sections of 135 below. Hopefully I copied all the pertinent parts:

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135.99 Composition of flight crew.

(a) No certificate holder may operate an aircraft with less than the minimum flight crew specified in the aircraft operating limitations or the Aircraft Flight Manual for that aircraft and required by this part for the kind of operation being conducted.

(b) No certificate holder may operate an aircraft without a second in command if that aircraft has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any pilot seat, of ten seats or more.

§ 135.101 Second in command required under IFR.

Except as provided in §135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

[Doc. No. 28743, 62 FR 42374, Aug. 6, 1997]
§ 135.105 Exception to second in command requirement: Approval for use of autopilot system.

(a) Except as provided in §§135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications. No certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as a pilot in command under this section of an aircraft operated in a commuter operation, as defined in part 119 of this chapter unless that person has at least 100 hours pilot in command flight time in the make and model of aircraft to be flown and has met all other applicable requirements of this part.

(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.

(c) The Administrator issues an amendment to the operations specifications authorizing the use of an autopilot system, in place of a second in command, if—

(1) The autopilot is capable of operating the aircraft controls to maintain flight and maneuver it about the three axes; and

(2) The certificate holder shows, to the satisfaction of the Administrator, that operations using the autopilot system can be conducted safely and in compliance with this part.

The amendment contains any conditions or limitations on the use of the autopilot system that the Administrator determines are needed in the interest of safety.

[Doc. No. 16097, 43 FR 46783, Oct. 10, 1978, as amended by Amdt. 135–3, 45 FR 7542, Feb. 4, 1980; Amdt. 135–58, 60 FR 65939, Dec. 20, 1995]

§ 135.111 Second in command required in Category II operations.

No person may operate an aircraft in a Category II operation unless there is a second in command of the aircraft.

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Does Alpine haul freight or self-loading freight?

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§ 135.101 Second in command required under IFR.

Except as provided in §135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

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I don't know if there are other 135 rules pertaining to the freight-only operators (since most of my 135 flying is pax, and we have authorization to use A/P in lieu of SIC) (and since it's Friday night I ain't goin' lookin'
grin.gif
) . Maybe they aren't required to have an SIC unless the aircraft operating limitations or the Aircraft Flight Manual for that aircraft specifies two crewmembers(?). I'll let someone with direct freight 135 experience speak to that point. I was just trying to point out the section of the 135 regs that (I think) JT was referring to.




<Steve leaves the room to grab another beer, and thereby finishes a sentence with a preposition.....or is it a proposition? Either way he doesn't really care since It's The Weekend!>

beer1.gif
 
SteveC thanks for covering me. Luc, freight has a special set of rules. I've even heard references to something called part 125 but I know nothing about it.

We were allowed to reposition BE1900s single pilot (if we had the type) but obviously never with paying passengers (a few non-revs might sneak in!)

This is not to say that a skunk will ever be welcome at a lawn party! Back in the 90's, when PFT (PFJ whatever) was rearing it's ugle head, a local freight hauler (Cherokee Express) tried to set up a paid SIC program in their 210s, Aerostars and Navajos. $10,000 for 300 hrs (sounds familiar huh?) The local FSDO was so outraged that they hounded them terribly during the whole program. Even though they could never find a rule being violated, I don't think the program lasted very long. The company decided it wasn't worth all the extra "attention" they were getting from inspectors.
 
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SteveC thanks for covering me. Luc, freight has a special set of rules. I've even heard references to something called part 125 but I know nothing about it.

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Thank you two for the replies, I didnt know they were different,

But here is my question, why do most Cargo Operators require 135 minimums for their job? I believe it is still flown under 135, but somwhere it has to state these rules.
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But here is my question, why do most Cargo Operators require 135 minimums for their job? I believe it is still flown under 135, but somwhere it has to state these rules

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Because the cargo in back is paying to be there, hence being an on-demand air carrier, governed by part 135 (among others). Thje rules describing what is an "on-demand" carrier are contained in part 119. Bascially, if something is paying to be on board (pax or cargo) you are operating as 135. If something isn't on board, it's part 91.

135.243(c) specifies minimums for operating an aircraft as PIC under IFR - 1200 TT, 500 xcty, 75 inst and 100 hours night.

Can't remember the VFR reg, but there's a regulation (135.243-something) that says to operate under 135 in VFR flight you need 500 TT.

This is my understanding of the autopilot issue:

If you are operating 135, you must have an SIC, unless:

1) Aircraft has less than 10 pax seats
2) You have a 3-axis autopilot
3) You have an exeption from the FAA allowing the autopilot use in lieu of an SIC

There is an additional case where an SIC is required even if you have an autopilot and exeption (for the above conditions). If the flight is being operated as an "eligilbe on demand" flight you must have an SIC. This is a new rule that recently went into effect.

~wheelsup

Edit: For everyone's reference (and my own knowledge:)) I looked up part 125:

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PART 125--CERTIFICATION AND OPERATIONS: AIRPLANES HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 20 OR MORE PASSENGERS OR A MAXIMUM PAYLOAD CAPACITY OF 6,000 POUNDS OR MORE; AND RULES GOVERNING PERSONS ON BOARD SUCH AIRCRAFT

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So it's got nothing to do with smaller aircraft (<20 seats and less than <6000# payload).
 
Yeah I didn't think part 125 was right. That was for cargo/pax operators like Miami Air, World Airways, etc.

I just dug through 135 and 119 and couldn't find the phrase I was looking for. I know there is phraseology somewhere that allows certain cargo carriers to operate single pilot without an autopilot with some heavy restrictions.

I've seen some 172s doing cargo without them.
 
Im just making sure that I have all the info here. So, if there is a King Air 350 operating under 135 carrying passengers, it is required to have an SIC even with an a/p because it can have more than 10 pax seats?
 
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The 350 doesn't have more than 10. Nine pax seats total(double club + Lav seat).

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Yeah that was on purpose too! There actually is a configuration that allows 12 passengers plus the pilot, if you put one in the right seat and operate single pilot, but obviously you can't do that 135
 
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