135.267(f) Interpretation

[AlejoZodriaco]

Hello ,
I need help with this rule here:

(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.

Situation:First officer On 135 company that is always on call.
Question for the community: can the company override those 13 days off? I am having a hard time getting time off and for example: the last quarter of the year I had 3 scheduled days in November. They use Arinc FOS and thats what I have, only three days off in the last quarter.
I have sent some emails trying to get some days off but no response. Can this rule 135.267 f be overridden? Can I just say at the end of the quarter that I did not have the time off per regulation and deny assignment? Am I protected or how this Shi.. work?

thanks

 

[alaskadrifter]

FARs can’t be over ridden unless blessed by the FAA (ops specs, ferry permits, etc).

 

[ppragman]

Situation:First officer On 135 company that is always on call.

Always on call means you're not complying with the other parts of 135.267.

 

[z987k]

Always on call means you're not complying with the other parts of 135.267.

Not if it's always on call into 10 hours of rest before every flight.

 

[deadstick]

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2005/Brazill%20-%20(2005)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

The nature of the “daily” rest period is the same, regardless of the applicable subpart. Rest must be 1) continuous, 2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and 3) free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.

Finally, the regulation requires the certificate holder to “provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours.” (Emphasis added.) Summit Jet has stated high average numbers of “not scheduled” days, but we cannot tell if there are pilots for whom the average number disguises receipt of less than the regulatory minimum of 13 days. The relevant showing that Summit Jet must make under the regulation is that each flight crewmember actually receives at least 13 rest periods in every quarter. If Summit Jet cannot do so, it has not satisfied the regulation’s plain requirement

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2007/Schwarz%20-%20(2007)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

 

[ppragman]

Not if it's always on call into 10 hours of rest before every flight.

True, but I would be shocked if that were the case.

 

[z987k]

True, but I would be shocked if that were the case.

As would I.

Hello ,
I need help with this rule here:

(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.

Situation:First officer On 135 company that is always on call.
Question for the community: can the company override those 13 days off? I am having a hard time getting time off and for example: the last quarter of the year I had 3 scheduled days in November. They use Arinc FOS and thats what I have, only three days off in the last quarter.
I have sent some emails trying to get some days off but no response. Can this rule 135.267 f be overridden? Can I just say at the end of the quarter that I did not have the time off per regulation and deny assignment? Am I protected or how this Shi.. work?

thanks

The certificate holder must give you the 13 days off (and they may not be assigned retroactively). You as a crew member may not accept such an assignment.
135.267(a) - a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment...

For example, you get to December 19th and you haven't had a single proactively assigned day off for the quarter, it is illegal for you to accept any assignment until Jan 1.

Also, Pat, and myself suspect your 24/7 on call is also an illegal assignment.

Remember to protect your certificates. Most companies get little if any repercussions from operating illegally. Pilots on the other hand get suspensions or worse. That will kill your opportunity to do much in this career. There's so many places hiring, don't work for one asking you to break multiple FARs.

 

[ppragman]

As would I.


The certificate holder must give you the 13 days off (and they may not be assigned retroactively). You as a crew member may not accept such an assignment.
135.267(a) - a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment...

For example, you get to December 19th and you haven't had a single proactively assigned day off for the quarter, it is illegal for you to accept any assignment until Jan 1.

Also, Pat, and myself suspect your 24/7 on call is also an illegal assignment.

Remember to protect your certificates. Most companies get little if any repercussions from operating illegally. Pilots on the other hand get suspensions or worse. That will kill your opportunity to do much in this career. There's so many places hiring, don't work for one asking you to break multiple FARs.

Ass
License
Job


In that order

 

[z987k]

Ass
License
Job


In that order

Much like safe, then legal. In that order.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Not if it's always on call into 10 hours of rest before every flight.

How does that work?

 

[Roger Roger]

I mean, the regulation seems pretty straight forward. If they don’t give you 13 days off, it’s illegal.

 

[z987k]

How does that work?

You would be on call 24 hours a day, but any call would have to put you in rest for 10 hours since you've been on duty for some period of time that would not allow a 24 hour look back showing 10 hours of rest. By calling you to put you into rest for a future assignment, you can do 24/7 on call.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

You would be on call 24 hours a day, but any call would have to put you in rest for 10 hours since you've been on duty for some period of time that would not allow a 24 hour look back showing 10 hours of rest. By calling you to put you into rest for a future assignment, you can do 24/7 on call.

Ok, but how does that get you your 13 24hr hard days per quarter scheduled in advance?

 

[z987k]

Ok, but how does that get you your 13 24hr hard days per quarter scheduled in advance?

Oh it doesn't. In that regard I'm talking strictly about the daily rest rules. The OP said he's on call 24 hours and that's the only way you can do that, assuming you get the 13 per quarter as well.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Oh it doesn't. In that regard I'm talking strictly about the daily rest rules. The OP said he's on call 24 hours and that's the only way you can do that, assuming you get the 13 per quarter as well.

Ah, got it. That make sense now. I thought you were proposing some magical method to skirt the 13/quarter.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I mean, the regulation seems pretty straight forward. If they don’t give you 13 days off, it’s illegal.

13 ... Scheduled in ADVANCE.

 

[deadstick]

13 ... Scheduled in ADVANCE.

“...but you haven’t flown for the last 3 days. That was your rest.”

 

[gotWXdagain]

Throw me into the pot of people who see this as illegal as •. For reasons already said.

It’s illegal as •.

 

[AlejoZodriaco]

Ah, got it. That make sense now. I thought you were proposing some magical method to skirt the 13/quarter.

As would I.


The certificate holder must give you the 13 days off (and they may not be assigned retroactively). You as a crew member may not accept such an assignment.
135.267(a) - a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment...

For example, you get to December 19th and you haven't had a single proactively assigned day off for the quarter, it is illegal for you to accept any assignment until Jan 1.

Also, Pat, and myself suspect your 24/7 on call is also an illegal assignment.

Remember to protect your certificates. Most companies get little if any repercussions from operating illegally. Pilots on the other hand get suspensions or worse. That will kill your opportunity to do much in this career. There's so many places hiring, don't work for one asking you to break multiple FARs.

Thanks , that make sense

 

[AlejoZodriaco]

FARs can’t be over ridden unless blessed by the FAA (ops specs, ferry permits, etc).

Thanks for the reply, it is hard to tell
This people to comply with the rules