121 Instructors

PhilosopherPilot

Well-Known Member
I won't get into the nitty gritty , but a captain here recently said that FOs shouldn't be instructors at our airline. He felt the airline should only hire captains to instruct. What's the consensus? Agree? Disagree?

Keep in mind we have contract instructors who aren't even seniority list pilots, with no "line" experience.
 
My company has recently been hiring FO's for instructor positions. They're doing this because it's cheaper to pay for another FO than it is a Captain. And most of our FO's are more experienced than a lot of RJ captains anyway. If you can't teach something after 12 years in the airplane, you're doing it wrong. I have no issue with FO instructors. Then again, I'm not exactly objective. I'm an FO who would like to instruct.
 
"What's the consensus? Agree? Disagree?"

Disagree. Being a Capt is simply a function of seniority, which is a function of DOH. You could have an retired military guy with a lot of instructing experience that came to the airlines as a second career who has little seniority. No reason to exclude that sort of background in your training dept by only allowing Capts to be instructors.

What I don't like is when an airline goes cheap by looking for nothing more than a college degree and a type rating. Doesn't matter if you have any experience at all, you just need to get through that type rating course and you'll be fine. Of course, it only pays 40K, but you'll be fine.

I'd rather see instructor quals be a year on the line, a couple hundred in type, and an instruction background preferred.
 
I think it's important they have time in the airframe they are teaching in but don't think that having 4 stripes makes them any more qualified. I'm not a fan of taking guy who just finished initial and throwing them in as ground sim instructors. (nothing against you @ZapBrannigan). The ONLY place I think somebody should have some PIC time before instructing is captain upgrade classes, especially at a regional level where most guys probably haven't ever been a captain before.
 
Thanks guys. I agree with you, and not because I'm an FO. I think the most important thing is the ability to teach, with experience in the aircraft a very close second. (Zap you're a line pilot, so whatever experience you may lack now, you will remedy in the near future).

My take on this guy was that he felt some level of entitlement about being a captain, and he took offense to a lowly FO providing him instruction. I had hoped that I had left that attitude back in the regionals. Lucky for us, Zap has some huevos, and actually told the guy "Yeah, we are the FOs who you think shouldn't be instructors because we aren't captains" while I was driving him back to his hotel after a training event. There was an awkward silence in the car, post comment... High five!
 
I disagree. A good instructor is a good instructor. Since you're at a joint that isn't anyone's first job, you bring precious command time and/or 121 time.

Things you learn in the SIM can really be instructed by anyone well versed in company procedures and the aircraft.

A great Captain can be a lousy sum instructor, a great SIM instructor could be a lousy captain. The 2 aren't necessarily correlated. Just like a linecheck airman and SIM instructor aren't necessarily coordinated.

You'll learn a lot that first year, just like your first year of being a captain. However, when you have guys like the guy you're speaking about, don't expect them to be interested in much of what you say. Do it anyway, but you will expect the same pushback.
 
Training is, by its simplest definition, bridging the gap between expected performance and actual performance. My wife - a lifelong educator and instructional designer - often says, "the worlds greatest salesman, may not be able to teach other salesmen to be great". She is right. A great pilot is not necessarily a great instructor. I do believe that experience can help an instructor add texture to the training event - even if it does not happen to be experience in type.

(My wife, for example, wrote a course on chemical weapons for the Army and I can assure you she is not a subject matter expert in that field)
 
I think it's important they have time in the airframe they are teaching in but don't think that having 4 stripes makes them any more qualified. I'm not a fan of taking guy who just finished initial and throwing them in as ground sim instructors. (nothing against you @ZapBrannigan). The ONLY place I think somebody should have some PIC time before instructing is captain upgrade classes, especially at a regional level where most guys probably haven't ever been a captain before.

I agree. At least I wouldn't say a Capt is more qualified who just finished IOE and was not an FO on the type than an FO who has thousands in type and can instruct.
 
pete2800 said:
My company has recently been hiring FO's for instructor positions. They're doing this because it's cheaper to pay for another FO than it is a Captain. And most of our FO's are more experienced than a lot of RJ captains anyway. If you can't teach something after 12 years in the airplane, you're doing it wrong. I have no issue with FO instructors. Then again, I'm not exactly objective. I'm an FO who would like to instruct.
My instructor is a 2011 FO hire (600hrs). Not 12 yrs He was a dispatcher before.
 
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I was an instructor as an F/O and as a CA...Made no difference to the guys as long as you knew the material and could get them out the door with a SAT...
 
We have FO ground instructors; everyone here who is a flight instructor (simulator or otherwise) is a Captain and Line Check Airman. I largely disagree with the assertion that an FO has some innate trait that disqualifies them from giving instruction. That said, I do like learning the machine and the operation from people who've done lots of it, and all of our check airmen on this airplane have done a LOT of flying at this airline.

Keep in mind we have contract instructors who aren't even seniority list pilots, with no "line" experience.
I'd prefer to keep them all seniority list and somewhat current for reasons above.
I agree. At least I wouldn't say a Capt is more qualified who just finished IOE and was not an FO on the type than an FO who has thousands in type and can instruct.
This brings up another interesting point - the left seat occupant is not always the most experienced in the airplane.
 
I'd certainly prefer them to have some line experience. I'd prefer they were qualified for the job they were teaching to.
My experience with those two has been less than savory.
 
We've got FO ground instructors and I found them as knowledgeable as the Ca's. In the sim however, I've only seen captains.

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