121 Alternates

P

propsync

Well-Known Member
From one hour before to one hour after, the weather at your destination is forecast to be 2500 broken and 10 miles visibility. We all recognize this to mean no alternate is required. But what about if there is conditional language during the forecast time that shows a tempo of 1800 broken and 10 miles. Is an alternate required?

This is not a 3585 question. I do not believe only the main body of the forecast only applies in this situation since we are not applying 3585. I believe an alternate is required but dispatch disagrees. 121.619 states the following language "the appropriate weather reports or forecasts, or any combination of them, indicate"

What is the consensus?
 
propsync said:
I believe an alternate is required but dispatch disagrees.
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You may have a rogue and/or incompetent dispatcher but I dont know of any carrier that teaches or encourages dispatchers to ignore conditional phrases in forecasts when considering if an alternate is required or not. This is not even a matter of opinion. The reg is black and white on this. If a dispatcher tries to tell you that conditional phrases are not controlling for determining if an alternate is required or not, you need to talk to either a duty manager or dispatch training department who will correct this kind of thing. Its very rare to find this as the vast majority of dispatchers are maybe too conservative and add alternates at any sign there could possibly be a drop in the forecast to require an alternate.
 
If a dispatcher tells you that they don't think you need an alternate, tell them to pack sand and to give you one. If they don't like it, tell them to conference you in with your chief and they can explain why they're wasting everyone's time by not giving you an alternate when you clearly need one.
 
chrisreedrules said:
If a dispatcher tells you that they don't think you need an alternate, tell them to pack sand and to give you one. If they don't like it, tell them to conference you in with your chief and they can explain why they're wasting everyone's time by not giving you an alternate when you clearly need one.
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Pack sand?

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A dispatcher here. We are always taught and told that if its below 2000 and 3 (even in the conditional statement) then an alternate is required.
 
chrisreedrules said:
If a dispatcher tells you that they don't think you need an alternate, tell them to pack sand and to give you one. If they don't like it, tell them to conference you in with your chief and they can explain why they're wasting everyone's time by not giving you an alternate when you clearly need one.
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Or maybe alternatively you could avoid being a jerk and just explain why you require one. Chat with them for a minute and see what's up?
 
Luigi said:
Or maybe alternatively you could avoid being a jerk and just explain why you require one. Chat with them for a minute and see what's up?
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I like my formal PIC authority, but I'd be loathe to use it so...aggressively, without making a phone call to Flight Control first.
 
I've had a case of the grumpies with work this week and dealing with rude co-workers. FAs, gate agents, and dispatchers alike. So I think my response was based a little on that. In all reality I probably wouldn't say that to them.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I've had a case of the grumpies with work this week and dealing with rude co-workers. FAs, gate agents, and dispatchers alike. So I think my response was based a little on that. In all reality I probably wouldn't say that to them.
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Ain't no cause for people to be that way.

Everyone wants to get their precious jimmies rustled nowadays. Can I just come in and fly the jet and make money, please?

("Clear left, first round is on me.")
 
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