121.5 and Pilot Controlled lighting.

[Roger, Roger]

On a not-really-related note, I thought I heard once-upon-a-time that they were going to put the center frequencies for MOAs right on the sectional, instead of over on the communications tab...anyone else hear/know anything about this?

 

[JulietBravo]

I like the idea, like said before, less things to worry about in the airplane than looking up a CTAF. Only problems I could see is cost for implementation and also, you know your going to get that one jerk that will be up at 9500 clicking up all the lights in the tri-state area for fun. Of course, that's what 122.8 is for!

 

[Swen]

What if some lights are already on at some of the airports within range? Say some are off, some on, some low intensity and some at high intensity. So all the lighting systems would go through their lighting levels each time. It would appear that the pilot would need to activate the PCL several times to make sure he's seen all the airport options.

...The horizon would be filled with disco parties!anic:

 

[Roger, Roger]

...The horizon would be filled with disco parties!anic:

This would be a problem why?:rawk:

 

[Douglas]

...The horizon would be filled with disco parties!anic:

You sir, have stubbled on to my plan! :laff:


Juliet Bravo: You know, I once flew with a new CFI that always did that. It really got old. Anytime there was an airport roughly in eyesight, he would crank the lights on. At first I didn't have a problem with it but then it was annoying just like his personality.

 

[ILS37R]

While I think it might be nice for the pilot in distress, I think such a change would cause a significant hazard to other pilots in the area. For example: when available, I usually prefer to key medium or even low intensity lights when landing at night. Having someone turn on the brights on short final is not pleasant and can be pretty disorienting. If it happened over a large area with a dozen or more fields suddenly switching on the high beams, I could see it being a real problem.

Add in the yahoos who'd regularly do it just for fun and we could have a patently dangerous situation.

 

[Douglas]

Having someone turn on the brights on short final is not pleasant and can be pretty disorienting.

Good point, and something to think about.

 

[MikeD]

While I think it might be nice for the pilot in distress, I think such a change would cause a significant hazard to other pilots in the area. For example: when available, I usually prefer to key medium or even low intensity lights when landing at night. Having someone turn on the brights on short final is not pleasant and can be pretty disorienting. If it happened over a large area with a dozen or more fields suddenly switching on the high beams, I could see it being a real problem.

.

That, and if on short final and the lights time-out and shut off, you'd have to switch freqs from CTAF to Guard to key them back on.......painful, and not very safe. Good to come up with ideas to make things potentially easier, but IMO this is a case of trying to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Douglas]

That, and if on short final and the lights time-out and shut off, you'd have to switch freqs from CTAF to Guard to key them back on.......painful, and not very safe. Good to come up with ideas to make things potentially easier, but IMO this is a case of trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Why would anybody have to switch from CTAF to Guard?
The way I thought about it, both frequencies would operate the lights independently.

Also, isn't the lights timing out on short final already a possibility in the current set-up?

In the current system I have had the light turned up on me on short final, three clicks later, they were back down. I personally don't see it as a big enough problem to fix the current system.

 

[MikeD]

Why would anybody have to switch from CTAF to Guard?
The way I thought about it, both frequencies would operate the lights independently.

Also, isn't the lights timing out on short final already a possibility in the current set-up?

In the current system I have had the light turned up on me on short final, three clicks later, they were back down. I personally don't see it as a big enough problem to fix the current system.

Unless I read the original post wrong, wasn't the advocating to have PCLs operate on 121.5 instead of the CTAF (I could be wrong)? If that's the case, then at some point, you'd want to be on CTAF around the airport? Yes, timing out is an issue, but I agree with the above that you'd hate to be on short final, then someone clicks the PCL on 121.5 for another airport, but affects your intensity of your runway lights.

How is the current system broken again?....you go to the airport you're going to, you come up on CTAF, you operate the PCL. Seems simple enough.

 

[Douglas]

Unless I read the original post wrong, wasn't the advocating to have PCLs operate on 121.5 instead of the CTAF (I could be wrong)? If that's the case, then at some point, you'd want to be on CTAF around the airport?

No, the original post did not want Pilot Controlled lighting to be switched to 121.5, but in addition to.

That would actually be a horribly embarrassing idea.

How is the current system broken again?....you go to the airport you're going to, you come up on CTAF, you operate the PCL. Seems simple enough.

I don't think the current system is broken. ILS37R brought up a good point, in the case of an emergency and somebody did utilize PCL on 121.5, it could potentially affect some local plane on short final with brightness. Then you brought up the possibility of the lights going out on short final.
After thinking about it, my answer was that these are possibilities under the current system, without 121.5 being an option. As you said, they could be problems but I think they are so rare and can be readily fixed, there isn't a need to change a PCL system that isn't broken, just add the ability to use 121.5.


I might not be writing clearly enough tonight, it seems like you understood the exact opposite of what I intended to say.

 

[MikeD]

After thinking about it, my answer was that these are possibilities under the current system, without 121.5 being an option. As you said, they could be problems but I think they are so rare and can be readily fixed, there isn't a need to change a PCL system that isn't broken, just add the ability to use 121.5.


I might not be writing clearly enough tonight, it seems like you understood the exact opposite of what I intended to say.

Might not be you, might just be my late night! In addition to....I see where you're coming from now. I could see where that could be a benefit.

 

[BrewMaster]

I'll say I completely agree with Douglas. All the issues/potential problems already exist with the current system. The chances of someone actually having an emergency and keying up on 21.5, meanwhile a local plane is on short final and the lights go out at that precise time? to me seems like a rare occasion to say the least.

Not only that but I don't only key up once 15 minutes out, so I don't know why the lights would go out anyways, I key up to low-intensity on final so I just bought myself another 15 minutes. If they did go out OR got too bright, it only takes 5 seconds, even less if you watch a lot of TV. Like Douglas said, the same issues already exist, it would just give a pilot in distress one less thing to worry about and everyone else could deal with it and consider themselves lucky not to be in that same predicament for a few minutes. I'm sure there are some really good points/issues to think about, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[Chief Captain]

It doesn't have to dazzle you. There could be a simple fix that says if the lights are already turned on low be a plane on final, they go no higher than medium intensity. All others go full bright.

I also agree that the con of having the lights on high while somebody is on final is not as significant as the overall pro of the idea.

Take it to multiple officials and see what they say. Hopefully one of them will have the connections to make the idea go up the FAA chain.

 

[Douglas]

Well, we are getting inspected tomorrow. I will try and bring it up if I get the chance.

 

[c172captain]

Regardless of the possibility of the ######bags abusing it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Who knows what airports might show up that not only did you possibly forget about, but what if you didn't even realize they were there/that close?

 

[unclenobby]

I think it's a very innovative idea. As already stated the light intensity/ lights out problem exist on every field with PCL today, so those issues are a non starter really.

 

[Blip16]

most PCL works by signal strength i think, because most of the ones around here dont light up until around 15nm or so, anything further and they stay dark. So this could still be accomplished by adjusting the sensitivity of the system to allow a greater range.

BUT

last fall i was doing night landings at the airport in my area with the BRIGHTEST runway lights around. low intensity is equivalent to a normal Medium intensity setting. for 3 trips around the pattern every time we turned final an aircraft overflying would crank the lights to MAX......i was not pleased.

SO

I do not agree with this idea. it could be helpful, or we could teach our students to be situationally aware. If IFR and in IMC, cranking the lights up at all nearby airports won't help me out a lot. take advantage of a sectional (should have it with even for IFR) and aware of your positions (radial/dme, doesn't have to be GPS)