$10K Extra Fee Added for VA Program

[juskl]

On the VA thing. As long as the cross country time is part of an approved 141 program and the solo cross countries are part of the approved syllabus, then yes they will cover the program. It all depends on how your Part 141 program was written up.

At our school, we combine the Comm/Instr into one program. It is approved by the VA as such, so no problems.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

VA will approve solo time but VA will not approve time as a safety pilot.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Yeah I am not understanding this whole argument either. Yes I am an ATP CFI but that is neither here nor there.

Most schools that lower their prices offer nothing in compensation for those that just bought at a higher price the week before. Hell I bought a 42 inch TV for $2k and a week later it went down to $1600. Should I expect a refund? Will I get one? Nope. The fact that ATP gives something back seems pretty dang good to me. They are in no way obliged to, and its not something anyone else has done.

Yeah the jet ride probably does not do a whole lot for ones' career, but I would not call it worthless. If I had just finished a grueling 90 day program and had never flown anything larger than a Seminole, a ride in a small jet sounds like alot of fun at least.

ATP loves adding fees to it's programs to inconvenience their students. I feel bad for those students already going through the program who have just found out they need to come up with 10k immediately.

This is almost libelous. Do you have any specific examples? It seems to me that ATP prides itself on NOT adding fees, which is one of the largest selling points.

 

[saragousa75]

:yeahthat:

 

[DL31082]

I never had a single fee added to my program. I have never heard of ATP adding fees to the program.

 

[guywhoflies]

Yeah I am not understanding this whole argument either. Yes I am an ATP CFI but that is neither here nor there.

Most schools that lower their prices offer nothing in compensation for those that just bought at a higher price the week before. Hell I bought a 42 inch TV for $2k and a week later it went down to $1600. Should I expect a refund? Will I get one? Nope. The fact that ATP gives something back seems pretty dang good to me. They are in no way obliged to, and its not something anyone else has done.

Yeah the jet ride probably does not do a whole lot for ones' career, but I would not call it worthless. If I had just finished a grueling 90 day program and had never flown anything larger than a Seminole, a ride in a small jet sounds like alot of fun at least.



This is almost libelous. Do you have any specific examples? It seems to me that ATP prides itself on NOT adding fees, which is one of the largest selling points.

If you bought the tv from best buy, they would have refunded you the difference.

I think that ATP was trying to get people to sign up for the 141 program initially and they probably figured that those same people would question why they were being charged more than the regular ACPPers. Now, they have A TON of people signed up and they can add that fee because if one guy doesn't like it there is someone else ready to step into their slot.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I've never heard of ATP adding fees after the program started. If they started doing that they'd go out of business -- that is the ONLY thing that they have going for them, their reputation for a single price point. It, however, wouldn't surprise me if they had perhaps concealed or if that is too strong a word then simply did not emphasize the fact that the VA program would be 10k more.

 

[NolePilot]

Not always true...they just recently dropped the price of the ACPP by $5000. Student A started a week ahead of Student B. After the price decrease, Student B got all $5000 taken off his program price. Student A, on the other hand, was given no price reduction at all. When he asked Jim about it, Jim gave him a citation ride instead and tried to act like he should be grateful he got that much. Oh by the way, this is the same citation ride that ATP offers on their website for $3000 and they claim it will "make you remember why you want to be a jet pilot." I hate them so much...:banghead:

You need get your facts straight paco. They lowered the price and anyone who had not completed the instrument rating got the lower price. Anyone that already completed the instrument training which is 80% of the training were given the citation ride without the lower price. My students who started the private in January got the price lowered twice since they have been with ATP.

Oh these forums.... too many people love to see their posts online and think they are super intelligent with all their "facts"

 

[surreal1221]

ATP is the greatest.

I wish I went there.

 

[Captain_Bob]

ATP is the greatest.

He didn't say that... nor does it appear that he implied that. He was just trying to get the facts out.

I don't think there's anything wrong with existing instructors stating the facts as they know them and their company's position... it kind of helps counter balance the "FBO or die" crowd that seem to want to use this forum as a soapbox for why people should only do it their way while chiding individuals for even considering ATP... after all... it worked for them, so it should work for every other single person who wants to learn to fly. Right?

Seriously though... where's the love? Where's the interest in the individual's needs, desires, learning style, and background, before just blatantly stating one program is wrong, but yours is right?

Bob

 

[meyers9163]

Oh these forums.... too many people love to see their posts online and think they are super intelligent with all their "facts"[/FONT][/COLOR]

Or is it when people disagree with certain people, instead of trying to have a civil discussion we all say, "There's no way in hell, you are wrong." Instead of acting like professionals. Fact of the matter is, especially here on JC, I have not viewed many post in which people said false things about any of the sponsors if that were to be Skymates, ATP, etc etc....

You may have had a good experience at ATP. Many others may have not. When I go to a local Olive Garden, I might have a great experience and service. The next couple whom goes to that same place and has the same waitor or waitress may NOT agree with me. And that's fine. They know about their experience, I DO NOT. Thus its ok for them to post and have a stance on things. I cannot call them a liar or say they just hate Olive Garden because I do not know the facts of THEIR experience. However I know MY experience that evening was good. Much the same at ATP. Some have a great experience, some have terrible, some just simply could care less.

 

[MikeD]

You may have had a good experience at ATP. Many others may have not. When I go to a local Olive Garden, I might have a great experience and service. The next couple whom goes to that same place and has the same waitor or waitress may NOT agree with me. And that's fine. They know about their experience, I DO NOT. Thus its ok for them to post and have a stance on things. I cannot call them a liar or say they just hate Olive Garden because I do not know the facts of THEIR experience. However I know MY experience that evening was good. Much the same at ATP. Some have a great experience, some have terrible, some just simply could care less.

I think people forget that it's different strokes for different folks. ATP, Skymates, Star, etc may be good for some people, not such a good fit for others. Same with and number of FBOs, good for some, not so good for others. That doesn't necessarily mean any particular place is better than another, only that different people will "fit" better in different places. That's why there's choices in the first place of places to attend, and why each is different in its own way.

 

[meyers9163]

I think people forget that it's different strokes for different folks. ATP, Skymates, Star, etc may be good for some people, not such a good fit for others. Same with and number of FBOs, good for some, not so good for others. That doesn't necessarily mean any particular place is better than another, only that different people will "fit" better in different places. That's why there's choices in the first place of places to attend, and why each is different in its own way.

It is that as well. However different strokes for different folks is a whole other topic. The fact that one person may have had a great experience and another not so much to me has little to do with fast pace verus FBO/academy. It more so has to do with the experience and that can change due to many issues, one being how they adapt to the training structure. However it does not mean that person does not have the right to state their thoughts and feelings about THEIR experience. To each their own and thus each person can comment on THEIR experience and Captainbob, you or myself cannot really comment on that unless we were there. Thus the reason most try to stay neutral when one comments on their experience.

 

[MikeD]

It is that as well. However different strokes for different folks is a whole other topic. The fact that one person may have had a great experience and another not so much to me has little to do with fast pace verus FBO/academy. It more so has to do with the experience and that can change due to many issues, one being how they adapt to the training structure. However it does not mean that person does not have the right to state their thoughts and feelings about THEIR experience. To each their own and thus each person can comment on THEIR experience and Captainbob, you or myself cannot really comment on that unless we were there. Thus the reason most try to stay neutral when one comments on their experience.

That's what I'm getting at......I wasn't intending to argue academy vs FBO. My argument was that different people will have different experiences even at the same place. The same place is the constant......how the different people fit/relate/work with that place, will individually determine how "good" or "bad" an experience it was for them and them only. And that applies to anywhere. Hence, my use of different strokes for different folks [in the same place]......the bracketed part is what I should've added.

 

[Captain_Bob]

I completely agree that individuals can have widely varying experiences at in any training scenario. ATP or any other larger flight school is not for everyone... and neither is an FBO.

What I was referring to above was when someone comes on here and tells everyone "the way it is"... but when a few others who know the situation from a different point of view come on here to explain or clarify the issue, then they seem to be treated as if they are wrong and simply trying to defend their workplace... vs. simply stating the facts to clarify what the OP had posted.

Taking Meyers' "Olive Garden" example; If someone goes in and has a terrible experience one day and rants about it on an online restaurant forum... but then a few of the waitstaff that were there that specific day decide to come on to the forums and clarify the situation based on the information they know to be accurate, why should they be chided?

Taking it a step further... as what seems to be the case on here many times as well; Someone hears that the "Olive Garden" is operating in a way that is not in line with how they think an Italian restaurant should be ran and they post information about what they "know" about the place without ever having ate or visited there. Then again... an employee from Olive Garden comes on and clarifies that what the original poster stated was not quite accurate. But the employee gets chided for being a "company guy" or drinking the "kool-aid", and all the other folks who never went to Olive Garden, or who work directly for the competition, start stating that "Oh noooo... guess you can't ever say anything bad about the Olive Garden in these forums... lest you get pounced on by the folks who went there or are employed there!".

Well... don't know if those are the best examples... but you get my drift. Overall, I've not seen folks from ATP go into the FBO forums and chide folks for going that route the way I've seen it in reverse.

Anyway... MikeD summed it up well with a simple "Different strokes for different folks." But when one person is vocal about their "different" experience that may have been negative... the folks who are against ATP seem to take that as "the way it is" and they rally around that post by saying "See! That's they way it is there... Why would anyone go there when they would "never" have that exprience where I work."

Different strokes for different folks works both ways. We tend to forget that on here sometimes.

Bob

 

[meyers9163]

Agreed Bob it is indeed based on various situations. Who would have thought, OLIVE garden would make its way into an ATP thread... Salad and breaksticks are sounding good about right now .

At the end of the day, we all agree to let people post their thoughts based on experiences they had. And its perfectly ok if your experience may have been different.

 

[Captain_Bob]

Their breadsticks are a meal by themselves... they have all the major food groups... You know: Bread, Butter, Garlic salt... Mmmmmm!

 

[wjmiller3]

Sombody needs to let milehighpilot08 know there is a thread he has not pasted his blanket post on!!!anic:

 

[meyers9163]

Sombody needs to let milehighpilot08 know there is a thread he has not pasted his blanket post on!!!anic:

What? English perhaps?

 

[wjmiller3]

What? English perhaps?

I guess I dont get it....