10 Month program?

[LoadMasterC141]

What are people’s experiences with the 10-month self paced program?

Living in Temple, TX, I am about 2 to 2.5 hours from the Arlington location. I am thinking about possibilities of the ACPP after I finish my PPL and burn up to 85 hours time. However, I can afford the loan, but not the loss of a paycheck. My thought was that I could do the ACPP AND keep my normal job for the time being.

Anyone care to share some experience on this?

Does ATP work with you so the normal job can continue? (I have about 6 weeks of travel related to my job every year, so there will be weeks where I cannot fly during the week.

What about instructing after? Do they allow part-time instructors? I am guessing not, but hey worth asking. From what I have read, it seems you are somewhat at their mercy as to where you will instruct full-time, so it may be hard to get in at a specific location part-time.

 

[SIUav8er]

the ten month program will should work with your schedule. 10 months is really alot of time to finish the course and if your flying at least 3-4 days a week, you should be finished way under 10 months.

as for instructing for them part time, that probably would not be an option...

 

[stillageek]

I am doing the self paced private now and then on to the 10 month. I am at the Arlington location and they are very easy to work with. I basically told them when I can be there and there is always someone there. I work 7-4 Monday thru Friday. Thankfully I work 5 miles from the airport so I typcially fly 4:30ish- 7:30ish 3 days a week then 3 hours on Sunday morning.

 

[musicmixer]

I'm not a fan of the 10 month program, do the 90 day if you can.

 

[blee256]

Its no secret that I hate the 10 month program. I think the 90 program works because you are flying everyday and dont let rust build up. but spreading it out over 10 months, thats more that 3 times the length, and you are still allotted (sp?) the same amount of flight time....well you get the idea.

Living in Temple, TX, I am about 2 to 2.5 hours from the Arlington location. [/FONT]

and that line worries me the most. living 2 - 2.5 hours away.....do youreally think you will want to make that kind of drive twice a week. ANd those 2 days are your off days from work! how fast are yougonna get tired of not having a day off for yourself?

Good luck with whatever you decide, but Iwould highly recommend the 90 day program and stay away from the 10 month as much as possible

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Dude, I paid my way through an Ivy league school for 4 years driving a tractor trailer at night and EVERY weekend, off period, etc and made it with no problems. Mommy and Daddy never gave me a SINGLE red cent. , though uncle sam helped a little. Can't be afraid of a little sacrifice to get what you want. Plus, keeping my current job, I could easily afford to rent a plane and fly home to Temple on the weekends. I live minutes from the local airport. So it would be once a week most of the time.

Trust me…I would love to do the 90-day program, but it is silly to give up my $70k/yr job before I have too. Again, not that I wouldn’t give up my job as a real life Dilbert this minute, but it seems smart to keep it and pay off debt before I work for pennies a day in my dream job.

There is the possibility I can be granted a leave of absence for 90 days from my current company, and I AM exploring that, but it is not a guaranteed thing yet.

I can see why ATP would like the 90 day program better: Easier to schedule time tightly.
I can see why the ATP instructors would like the 90 day program: Squeeze hours out of the student faster.

Why would I though? Skip the “you will get rusty” argument, and the “but….but… but you won’t get to enjoy the long cross-countries”. Would be nice yes, but I’ve been there before (except on a world stage).

 

[Merlin]

As a former Arlington ATP instructor, we hated the 10 month program not because we didnt get as many hours out of the students, but because the students were outliers and it upset the normal flow of things.

We would have our normal cadre of students and when a 10 monther came in, they were squeezed into the schedule--a hole was never left open for them. It made us work that much harder just to spend time with you. Add to that the fact that the 10 monthers were consistently behind in their homework and their studying and that we frequently had to reteach multi engine or instrument concepts and it made a big mess. THEN, we hit the airplane and, especially early on in the program, it would be almost like starting over again.

If you're going to do the 10 month program, PLEASE PLEASE study/chair-fly, et cetera in your off time. The problem is that you are trying to maintain a full time job at home, where you have a comfort level and rhythm to your life. It's hard to squeeze into that an education program that was designed as a full time "job". Don't just come in on the weekends or 3 days a week--make it 4 or more if you can.

When I was looking at ATP, I worked a full time, well paying, desk job and I too considered the 10 month program. I came to the conclusion that if I were going to REALLY change careers and really do this, then I should make a clean break and start my new career the day I started ATP and consider the 3 months of flight school simply as a full time "apprenticeship" for my new job, which would start 3 months later. Yes, I gave up a high paying job, but it gave me a clean break and a fresh start into the new career. AND, it gave me a 6 month head start on time building and, now, seniority which is all important in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck,
Jeremy

 

[Airdale]

As a former Arlington ATP instructor, we hated the 10 month program not because we didnt get as many hours out of the students, but because the students were outliers and it upset the normal flow of things.

We would have our normal cadre of students and when a 10 monther came in, they were squeezed into the schedule--a hole was never left open for them. It made us work that much harder just to spend time with you. Add to that the fact that the 10 monthers were consistently behind in their homework and their studying and that we frequently had to reteach multi engine or instrument concepts and it made a big mess. THEN, we hit the airplane and, especially early on in the program, it would be almost like starting over again.

If you're going to do the 10 month program, PLEASE PLEASE study/chair-fly, et cetera in your off time. The problem is that you are trying to maintain a full time job at home, where you have a comfort level and rhythm to your life. It's hard to squeeze into that an education program that was designed as a full time "job". Don't just come in on the weekends or 3 days a week--make it 4 or more if you can.

When I was looking at ATP, I worked a full time, well paying, desk job and I too considered the 10 month program. I came to the conclusion that if I were going to REALLY change careers and really do this, then I should make a clean break and start my new career the day I started ATP and consider the 3 months of flight school simply as a full time "apprenticeship" for my new job, which would start 3 months later. Yes, I gave up a high paying job, but it gave me a clean break and a fresh start into the new career. AND, it gave me a 6 month head start on time building and, now, seniority which is all important in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck,
Jeremy

I second that.

I teach mostly 90 day career pilots right now, I just picked up a new 10 month guy and I had one before that. If you're serious about this career, then take it seriously and not half a$$ your training.
If your job is more important then studying hard and making time to become a good pilot, then don't bother coming to ATP. You are expected to study hard and train hard and dedicate the time to this. If you can't afford to leave a $70k/year job, or a $95k/year job as one student put it to me, then don't do the 10 month program at ATP. We train professional pilots, not weekend warriors. This is a career oriented school. If you just can't drop your job, then rethink this career and try a local FBO for your ratings. The ten month program only works when you have a PART time job, not a full time job.
I did the ten month program at TTN, I trained Mon-Fri. morning till 6:00pm then worked a part time job in the evenings for some cash. I did the 10 month program in 3 and half months. I made ATP my full time obligation and did some bar tending at nights and on weekends to bring in some cash. It worked out great.

Don't take this the wrong way, just advising you that ATP is not going to hold your hand in the 10 month program. If you can't dedicate the time to do this like you need to, then I'd suggest a local FBO. Its frustrating for an instructor to have to constantly reteach the same thing to a student over and over. And the reason for the student not retaining the information is not because they are stupid, its because they don't care enough to study on their own time, blaming their job as being more important.

Just something to think about.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks Merlin. I thought those would be some of the reasons. I guess if I decide to go to ATP, I’ll have to wait a year or two. Unfortunately, I need to be able to afford the pay cut. I honestly have no problem with a reduced standard of living…toys and material things are great, but I have done without them before; it is all about attitude. The big thing is debt, or rather, my wifes’ debt. She has college loans and a ton of credit card debt consolidated. Couple that with the fact she is standing fast on a decision not to sell our large house; I need to pay off all other debt to be able to afford to make the transition and incur that scary payment for the $45K.

My thought was that I could get my ratings out of the way faster at ATP, but still keep the job to pay off the debt. Then I could instruct part-time at a local FBO, and save like crazy so I have a safe stash for the first few years.

If I waited until I was able to make that “total transition”, as you put it, ATP will have to be in a year or two. The fact that I’ll be 32 is the hard part. Every year counts at this point. If I wait to go, it is a toss-up as to whether just paying for it all at local FBO is a better option. Certainly, that big scary $45k loan would not be present.

 

[Airdale]

Thanks Merlin. I thought those would be some of the reasons. I guess if I decide to go to ATP, I’ll have to wait a year or two. Unfortunately, I need to be able to afford the pay cut. I honestly have no problem with a reduced standard of living…toys and material things are great, but I have done without them before; it is all about attitude. The big thing is debt, or rather, my wifes’ debt. She has college loans and a ton of credit card debt consolidated. Couple that with the fact she is standing fast on a decision not to sell our large house; I need to pay off all other debt to be able to afford to make the transition and incur that scary payment for the $45K.

My thought was that I could get my ratings out of the way faster at ATP, but still keep the job to pay off the debt. Then I could instruct part-time at a local FBO, and save like crazy so I have a safe stash for the first few years.

If I waited until I was able to make that “total transition”, as you put it, ATP will have to be in a year or two. The fact that I’ll be 32 is the hard part. Every year counts at this point. If I wait to go, it is a toss-up as to whether just paying for it all at local FBO is a better option. Certainly, that big scary $45k loan would not be present.

You will think of something. You just don't want to be putting your training on the back burner so to speak. You want to be able to hit it hard, especially with ATP's program. Definitely don't want to have a ton of debt either, I'm feeling the pressure now and its not fun.

Goodluck.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

I second that.

I teach mostly 90 day career pilots right now, I just picked up a new 10 month guy and I had one before that. If you're serious about this career, then take it seriously and not half a$$ your training.
If your job is more important then studying hard and making time to become a good pilot, then don't bother coming to ATP. You are expected to study hard and train hard and dedicate the time to this. If you can't afford to leave a $70k/year job, or a $95k/year job as one student put it to me, then don't do the 10 month program at ATP. We train professional pilots, not weekend warriors. This is a career oriented school. If you just can't drop your job, then rethink this career and try a local FBO for your ratings. The ten month program only works when you have a PART time job, not a full time job.
I did the ten month program at TTN, I trained Mon-Fri. morning till 6:00pm then worked a part time job in the evenings for some cash. I did the 10 month program in 3 and half months. I made ATP my full time obligation and did some bar tending at nights and on weekends to bring in some cash. It worked out great.

Don't take this the wrong way, just advising you that ATP is not going to hold your hand in the 10 month program. If you can't dedicate the time to do this like you need to, then I'd suggest a local FBO. Its frustrating for an instructor to have to constantly reteach the same thing to a student over and over. And the reason for the student not retaining the information is not because they are stupid, its because they don't care enough to study on their own time, blaming their job as being more important.

Just something to think about.

Sorry if this is starting to sound cliche, but again...I did not make it through a highly recognized college, driving a tractor trailer every night, without dedicating every spare waking moment to studying. I drove a milk tanker 3 1/2 hours each way to Brooklyn or Queens 3 nights a week and twice every weekend, and held 15 credits a semester. You think I was'nt studying in the sleeper berth every moment that truck was stopped? I attribute it to the fact that I started college late, more mature, and more focused. Admittedly, it makes me proud that most people do not manage to be so motivated.

Now, for my current PPL training, I have read the Jepp Book cover to cover, made index cards for every single “hey this is important” thing in the book, practiced cross-country planning, flown MSFS at least an hour every evening, taken the online practice exam almost twice daily, ummmm AND managed to read just about every training blog I could find.

The point is moot anyway. You have made it clear that ATP is geared toward the 90-day program and us would-be “self-pacers”, no matter how motivated, would be in the way, unwelcome, and stereotyped. Not that there is anything wrong with that AT ALL. ATP seems like a great school...seen a few bad experiences on here, but the training standards seem great. I also appreciate your input. It really helps a noobie like myself figure things out.

 

[Airdale]

The point is moot anyway. You have made it clear that ATP is geared toward the 90-day program and us would-be “self-pacers”, no matter how motivated, would be in the way, unwelcome, and stereotyped. Not that there is anything wrong with that AT ALL. ATP seems like a great school...seen a few bad experiences on here, but the training standards seem great. I also appreciate your input. It really helps a noobie like myself figure things out.

Like I said, don't take it the wrong way. There is a reason for the 10 month program, for people with the dedication, which you seem to have which is great. There is a trend with the 10 month program, yes. The trend is a lot of students put other priorities ahead of their investment in their career.
Training for a change in career to aviation is an investment, an investment that should be taken seriously. Thats the only point I was trying to make. We do have very good, very motivated 10 month career pilots, these are the minority though. You could very well be one of them.

I am not trying to discourage you from the ten month program, rather I'm trying to make it clear that you do have to be dedicated, that way you don't waste your money.

If you really juggled a truck driving job (my brother in law drives for overnight, which is now ups freight ) and you attended a college at the same time and made it all work, then by all means I think you can do the ten month program. I have a ten month student that is very motivated and is a pleasure to train, but unfortunately they all aren't dedicated to the career.

I really enjoy being an instructor for ATP, and I have no preference over which program my students are in, 10 month vs. 90-day. But I do enjoy teaching the students who are motivated and dedicated as opposed to those that just don't care enough to take the time to study. Those students are doing nothing but wasting their money. I am not just trying to build hours and move along to the airlines. I want to be a good instructor who cares about the students and their training. After all, it was my dream to be a professional pilot and my instructor's worked hard for me, so I feel that I should give back to my students. This is sometimes a bad thing because I spent over a week making an instrument study guide for my students, I put in a lot of effort in their ground school and flight training and when they don't appreciate it or don't put in the effort on their end, its quite frustrating.

You seem serious about it, and with the dedication you had towards college while driving a truck, you would be a good fit at ATP. My intent was not to discourage you, just make you aware of some of the problems with those it he ten month program, that way you can decide if its for you or not before spending the money.

 

[Airdale]

As far as the training experience at ATP, it really is top notch. Sure there have been some bad experience's on here which are typically due to one instructor not doing what they were supposed to do. But I think I can speak for the majority of those training at ATP, that the training is great and what you get out of it is extremely valuable.

If you work hard during your training, you increase the chances of getting employment here at ATP, and thus increase your chances of getting with an Airline very quickly. They care about placing their instructors with the airlines, I've already had some help with my resume from ATP, which is awesome.

I am a 10 month "self-pacer" graduate, and I did fine in the program. Carry your dedication with you, and you'll do fine too. Plus its almost all Multi Engine time during the program, you can't beat that.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks so much for your comments. I really do appreciate them. Whatever I do is going to take a lot of dedication, even if it were the FBO route. “Driving” the plane seems to be 10% of it compared to the vast amount of knowledge that must also be gained. Everyone gets enamored with the flying part and then quit when they figure out it takes a lot of work too. Personally, I like the challenge and am more motivated than ever to make this happen.
I always thought I could mediate my failure to fulfill my lifelong dream of being a pilot by making lots of money. I guess it took getting to the “comfortable” wage point to realize that was not true. Now I must again sacrifice to fulfill my goals. Makes me feel more alive than ever.

ATP seems like a great school. Again, I saw and commented on a few negative situations, but the numbers speak for themselves: You guys must crank out a great pilot ready for the regionals. I want to get that level of education if possible.