Just a reminder: ACARS isn't private

I think the cargo FFDO thing is a real stretch honestly, more hassle and harm than its worth IMO. But the guys who I have flown with lately (and they are mostly all youngish) have been totally fine and I think good reps for the program. I feel like this is another topic we talk about every year, it must be up for renewal.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
No no.

@Cherokee_Cruiser had an imaginary moment where an FFDO pointed a gun at him. He didn't do the right thing and report it. He came here to JC to complain and say how worthless the program is.
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What I should have done is create a thread on our internal forum, and say thank you Captain Tim for really putting the danger in endangering, by making me sweat for my safety.

I’ll strive to be more like El pollo pequeño.
 
DPApilot said:
This one above.
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So now FFDOs can carry internationally? Never heard any update. Last I recall, at a virtual airline when they started JFK-ANC there was a memo about how FFDO and diversions may become an issue.

I'm sure it's some super secret to know which countries allow it or not. I'd only care to know if it's allowed in Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Belize, and Bahamas. I have yet to fly to those destinations with a FFDO.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So now FFDOs can carry internationally? Never heard any update. Last I recall, at a virtual airline when they started JFK-ANC there was a memo about how FFDO and diversions may become an issue.

I'm sure it's some super secret to know which countries allow it or not. I'd only care to know if it's allowed in Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Belize, and Bahamas. I have yet to fly to those destinations with a FFDO.
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I know at least one country on the other side of the ocean where you can carry.
 
🦈💜 said:
This wasn't a thread about FFDO, per-se, but I will say this:
The program is cheap as hell.
Don't underestimate the deterrence value of defense in depth.
We've got bigger things to worry about.
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Last I read, somewhere like $25-30m annually. Easy cut, easy savings. Just as a lack of an accident does not mean/imply/represent a good safety culture, a lack of a level 4 hijack does not imply it was because of a FFDO deterrent.

On a somewhat similar topic, I still remember all the ATP and ALPA bros talking about since the 1500 hr rule, they haven't had one fatal crash. That was never indicative of 1,500 hrs or not. Comair wrong runway were experienced pilots even before coming to Comair. Colgan CA was Gulfstream but the FO was a CFI who was actually very qualified for the time she was hired. Now a DC midair and the Toronto flip has quieted down that crowd, which obviously happened with the ATP rule in place.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I see. I'll ask around. Didn't know that at all. I wonder what changed.
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This is when a person with a sense of self awareness realizes that he needs to throttle back in subject areas which he has no, or little, domain expertise.

And the fools just… charge on.

And it’s been ‘a thing’ for a long time, nor does anyone owe you an explanation because you don’t operate there.
 
derg said:
This is when a person with a sense of self awareness realizes that he needs to throttle back in subject areas which he has no, or little, domain expertise.

And the fools just… charge on.

And it’s been ‘a thing’ for a long time, nor does anyone owe you an explanation because you don’t operate there.
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He needs to be kept up to speed on the program he despises, wants shutdown and makes up stories about.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'm sure it's some super secret to know which countries allow it or not. I'd only care to know if it's allowed in [Redacted by @adk]. I have yet to fly to those destinations with a FFDO.
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The information you seek is almost certainly SSI that you do not have a need to know.

And maybe, just maybe, the people who HAVE flown to other countries with (or as) an FFDO aren't blasting that info on public message boards because they have judgement far superior to yours.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
In similar news, a 787 UA pilot forgot a passport, requiring an air turn back to SFO.


Don’t get me started on the FFDO program. Useless, just an excuse for gung-go gun carrying. So far, 1 bullet hole in an A320. And now 1 international diversion diversion.
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I had an FFDO put his gun on his lap pointing at me. Negligently. Not maliciously. Same guy also set his gun on his bag outside of the flight deck unsupervised in view of passengers.

I would have reported him had I known it was possible. I was new and no one teaches anything about FFDOs beyond the bare minimum in training. I get that it is SSI but last I checked, I need to know what the idiot next to me with a gun is supposed to be doing. Especially as a captain. I really don't care for the program.
 
Maurus said:
I had an FFDO put his gun on his lap pointing at me. Negligently. Not maliciously. Same guy also set his gun on his bag outside of the flight deck unsupervised in view of passengers.

I would have reported him had I known it was possible. I was new and no one teaches anything about FFDOs beyond the bare minimum in training. I get that it is SSI but last I checked, I need to know what the idiot next to me with a gun is supposed to be doing. Especially as a captain. I really don't care for the program.
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pwttogfk said:
That reinforces my general belief that moar guns are not the solution to gun violence here, similarly to the rest of the developed world.
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Quoting myself for emphasis here.
 
Maurus said:
I had an FFDO put his gun on his lap pointing at me. Negligently. Not maliciously. Same guy also set his gun on his bag outside of the flight deck unsupervised in view of passengers.

I would have reported him had I known it was possible. I was new and no one teaches anything about FFDOs beyond the bare minimum in training. I get that it is SSI but last I checked, I need to know what the idiot next to me with a gun is supposed to be doing. Especially as a captain. I really don't care for the program.
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Yup, same here.

That program needs to have a course for the non-FFDO pilot, so we know what to expect.

I don’t even know who to turn to for any problem. CP? Pro Stans? Neither of those are federal govt branches. And a FFDO is an extension of a federal authority for that person.

The only briefing I ever get is, “I fly, you defend.”

Ok chief, honest question. I know it’s government training, which means there’s liability issues. My *guess* is there’s a very high chance they never discharged their weapon without eye and ear protection. And a high chance most of their shooting was outdoors, or in a large indoor range. Sound waves have a large area to disperse across.

Now we are in the flight deck, an inherently small space. Sound waves have nowhere to go but bounce back from flight instruments, panels, etc. So what do you think is going to happen to my hearing when you start popping off rounds literally 12-18 inches from my ears? I fully expect to have (hopefully only) temporarily loss of my hearing. Forget talking to ATC or comprehending their instructions. After the ringing subsides, then good luck with comms.

Not to mention, has anyone studied how people react after gunfire just inches from their face? Do they still have their chit together to function? (I’m referring to the non-FFDO).

Of course the counter is if it’s bad enough they had to use the weapon, we’d be effed anyway. Meh. Maybe. But if we are gonnna talk threats today, 2025? I have a far greater concern for a green-on-green attack (like the Delta divert threat, or Germanwings type scenario) than I do a pax trying to use us as a missile.
 
Maurus said:
I had an FFDO put his gun on his lap pointing at me. Negligently. Not maliciously. Same guy also set his gun on his bag outside of the flight deck unsupervised in view of passengers.

I would have reported him had I known it was possible. I was new and no one teaches anything about FFDOs beyond the bare minimum in training. I get that it is SSI but last I checked, I need to know what the idiot next to me with a gun is supposed to be doing. Especially as a captain. I really don't care for the program.
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Same. The chances of something good happening by shooting a gun in a confined pressurized cabin full of people doesn’t seem very high.
 
CFI A&P said:
So you admit to not being knowledgeable on a subject but still ramble on as if you did?

Ahem:

www.psychologytoday.com

Dunning-Kruger Effect

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

Or just trolling through Cunningham's Law?
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I mean, it’s kind of his shtick. No?
 
Maurus said:
I had an FFDO put his gun on his lap pointing at me. Negligently. Not maliciously. Same guy also set his gun on his bag outside of the flight deck unsupervised in view of passengers.

I would have reported him had I known it was possible. I was new and no one teaches anything about FFDOs beyond the bare minimum in training. I get that it is SSI but last I checked, I need to know what the idiot next to me with a gun is supposed to be doing. Especially as a captain. I really don't care for the program.
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My favorite was sitting on the jumpseat where a guy was showing the first officer, basically, ‘how it works’, then a radio call came through and he literally dropped it on the floor to pick up the hand mic. Of course it landed pointed at me.

I said “Dude!”

He said I was being alarmist.
 
derg said:
My favorite was sitting on the jumpseat where a guy was showing the first officer, basically, ‘how it works’, then a radio call came through and he literally dropped it on the floor to pick up the hand mic. Of course it landed pointed at me.

I said “Dude!”

He said I was being alarmist.
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Out of the holster or in the holster?
 
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