I have a question that I haven't faced in a while. I am finishing my XC hours for my instrument rating and most of my XC has been with an instructor filing IFR, or with a Safety Pilot filing IFR, or just no where near a Victor airway. Tomorrow morning I am flying to Bloomington IL and the best route enroute from the Joliet VOR to the Pontiac VOR is on a Victor airway. Is there any danger flying VFR (on standard altitudes of course) on an airway, or is it preferred to fly a dot to the left or right? I know the airway itself is pretty wide, but just double checking to see what is advisable.
Victor Airways and VFR
- Thread starter aifiji
- Start date
bdhill1979
Gone West
hold the centerline
tgrayson
New Member
I suppose this question has its origins with the proposal that, due to GPS, an aircraft at an improper altitude coming the opposite direction is more likely to be dead centerline that it would be when using VOR for navigation.
This is a similar argument to flying pattern altitudes 100 ft high or low, in case another unseen aircraft is at your same position in the pattern.
My view is that the risk of these things are so small, and the method of avoidance of such trivial effectiveness, that it's not worth giving up good airmanship habits by deliberately flying incorrect courses or altitudes.
bdhill1979
Gone West
:yeahthat:
Also being VFR on a Victor airway means that as long as you remember to turn your transponder on ATC can advise any IFR or flight following traffic if you come close.
"VFR traffic, type unknown, opposite direction, altitude 9500 unconfirmed"
If you're not under flight following, you could always fly at an obscure altitude. Other than _500. Something like _700, if you're concerned with other traffic (who primarily fly at the 500's).
JulietBravo
On Call, On Demand
Then again, that other traffic might be flying at _700 as well! 
Best bet is to just follow the rules and regs. Stay at _500 and fly on the centerline like your suppose to, and keep a watchful eye out for traffic. Like it was already said, the odds of you getting close to someone on a xc are VERY slim, but, like I tell my students, keep a watchful eye out!
Best bet is to just follow the rules and regs. Stay at _500 and fly on the centerline like your suppose to, and keep a watchful eye out for traffic. Like it was already said, the odds of you getting close to someone on a xc are VERY slim, but, like I tell my students, keep a watchful eye out!
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
The big sky theory is vastly over rated. There is lots of sky out there, but most planes tend to congregate about in the same area.
That said, me, as an IFR target would rather you not tool along at 700 feet because then we only have 300 feet separation and the TCAS is going to be going off, assuming ATC doesn't vector us off the airways first.
That said, me, as an IFR target would rather you not tool along at 700 feet because then we only have 300 feet separation and the TCAS is going to be going off, assuming ATC doesn't vector us off the airways first.
pacer7a
New Member
I agree with you bdhill, but I always heard that most midairs away from a traffic pattern are a result of one aircraft overtaking another. Thinking of a VFR Mooney or twin bearing down on me gives me the creeps. Maybe flight following would offer some protection, but they're not perfect.
Then again , that other traffic might be flying at _530' feet as well. Let's not split hairs here.
TCAS is going to be going off with 300 feet separation or 500 feet separation, no matter what, with miles of lateral separation. Again, let's not split hairs.
It's a legitimate suggestion.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
You can file IFR with a safety pilot??
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
What AFI is that?
germb747
Well-Known Member
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
AFI 11-202V3, paragraph 8.1.2.1.3
Interesting.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
if the safety pilot is instrument rated. i file for my students when they need to do instrument cross countries. it is a good experience for them. they really seem to enjoy it. just make sure your safety pilot is instrument rated!
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
If you're not under flight following, you could always fly at an obscure altitude. Other than _500. Something like _700, if you're concerned with other traffic (who primarily fly at the 500's).
Thats horrible advice. Why would you just pick some random altitude to fly. Hell, lets climb up into the flight levels. As long as we pick some random altitude its ok. Hell, lets just land at that airport over there. Control tower? No problem. We'll just land on that other runway so we don't get in the way. Extreme examples, same mentality.
+500 is for a reason. People don't set their altimeters and then when we go buzzing down an airway at +700 what do you know, we're right in the way of IFR traffic because we're 300 feet off on our altimeter. Rules are written for a reason. Should be followed for a reason. Lets not get out there and start making up VFR altitudes please. Besides if you're concerned with other traffic you should have your nose outside the airplane-LOOKING.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
There is the SLOP procedure for certain other countries. It stands for Strategic Lateral Offset Program.
The basic run down is the CA can choose centerline, 1 mile left or 1 mile right of track, and then notify ATC.
The absolute precision and accuracy of modern nav takes away the "nav error method" if you will of separation.
Just the other day, and I'm sure alot of ya'll have seen this as well, we had a plane, some light twin, opposite direction, 1000' below, and it set off the GPWS.
However, here in the states, I personally would stay on my route and altitude and get flight following if for no other reason than letting ATC know what you're doing out there.
The basic run down is the CA can choose centerline, 1 mile left or 1 mile right of track, and then notify ATC.
The absolute precision and accuracy of modern nav takes away the "nav error method" if you will of separation.
Just the other day, and I'm sure alot of ya'll have seen this as well, we had a plane, some light twin, opposite direction, 1000' below, and it set off the GPWS.
However, here in the states, I personally would stay on my route and altitude and get flight following if for no other reason than letting ATC know what you're doing out there.
fish314
Well-Known Member
The mneumonic for AF guys is IWANA.
When you are required to file IFR (according to 11-202v3):
Instrument Approaches (can't practice Instrument Approaches under VFR)
Weather (less than VFR)
Airways (flying on the Federal Victor Airway system)
Night (unless mission requirements dictate the sortie must be flown VFR)
A (Class A airspace)
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Sure. Why not?