GoJet Incident

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WalterSobchak said:
If it's any consolation(to the tsa guys) Gojet pilots aren't allowed in the xj jumpseats. I believe it has more to do with the lack of a reciprical js agreement.
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I dont think Pinnacle has one either. But i'ld have to check on that.


fly8slep said:
We have them in and out of our airplanes all the time and vice versa, I talk to them in STL/ORD and they seem happy.
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Wow times have changed, i had a friend who used to work there when GJ first came about. He wouldnt dh or js on them because he didnt want to catch crap from other TSA pilots if they saw him get off one of their planes.
 
fly8slep said:
No actually Gojet was created because AA wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters, it's a different certificate and airline. It wasn't to force pilots to fly for lower wages. They offered TSA guys to fly for GJ. Anyways it doesn't matter now, the fact is GJ is union they have 70 seat pay, they just got a new contract earlier this year while TSA is still operating under the old contract. So it's kind of ironic that people are saying GJ undermined and lowered industry standards, if there are any.:rolleyes:
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TheAlchemist said:
Did you actually believe what training depto (SW) told you?
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Seems to me that TSA's training dept is more likely to have accurate info as to management's intent than the TSA pilot group....
 
aloft said:
Seems to me that TSA's training dept is more likely to have accurate info as to management's intent than the TSA pilot group....
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Guess that's an 'outside the industry' perspective. Obviously, since you're not at an airline, you'd be surprised at the ridiculous rumors spread while in training. Many of which are developed by the 'trainers' that supposedly have management's ear. Not so surprising, these rumors seldom come to fruition. ;)
 
Screaming_Emu said:
The reason we can't allow our emotions to be exposed is the same reason when you were a CFI you said "right rudder, right rudder" and not "WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU IDIOT...THIS IS THE 700TH TIME I'VE TOLD YOU THIS...WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET IT!?!?!"
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people who require being told for the "700th" time don't belong in aviation
 
Cruise said:
Guess that's an 'outside the industry' perspective. Obviously, since you're not at an airline, you'd be surprised at the ridiculous rumors spread while in training. Many of which are developed by the 'trainers' that supposedly have management's ear. Not so surprising, these rumors seldom come to fruition. ;)
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And rumors spread by the pilot group are so much more reliable and free of bias... :whatever: :sarcasm:
 
aloft said:
And rumors spread by the pilot group are so much more reliable and free of bias... :whatever: :sarcasm:
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In the three years I've been flying 121 I'd say about 50% of the rumors I've heard came out of either Maintenance ("we've got -900 engines on order!") or Training ("we've got EFB training manuals printed and ready to hand out!"). The other 50% come from web forums.

Training guys might be good instructors (or not sometimes) but as far as company information, unless they are truly plugged in, as a few are, generally don't know crap about stuff like that.

But of course, you wouldn't believe that because I'm not a training department guy so I don't have credible information.
 
aloft said:
Seems to me that TSA's training dept is more likely to have accurate info as to management's intent than the TSA pilot group....
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Intent? Of what buddy? Do you know what I'm talking about exactly? Were you in class with Trans States? Do you know SW?

And FYI it was only this ONE instructor (SW) who said what you say is "accurate info as to management's intent". Every other instructor agrees 110% with the pilot group.

I'm glad I could help you get your first flying job man...too bad I won't be able to help you with GoJet. I got a notice of furlough today, but I hear G7 is hiring so why don't you apply? I feel the love...Aloft & GoJet :banghead:

Sorry but I'm not in a good mood today.
 
So why would info from the pilot group be any better? Seeing how chummy ya'll are with Hulas, you know exactly what goes through his mind....not!

That said, the bottom line is pretty obvious: getting around the pilot contract may have been a reason GoJet was created, but it wasn't THE reason; THE reason was the AMR contract and its 50-seat scope language. Said scope language is also THE reason TSA is furloughing; 50-seat jets just aren't that popular right now with the mainline carriers.
 
aloft said:
That said, the bottom line is pretty obvious: getting around the pilot contract may have been a reason GoJet was created, but it wasn't THE reason; THE reason was the AMR contract and its 50-seat scope language. Said scope language is also THE reason TSA is furloughing; 50-seat jets just aren't that popular right now with the mainline carriers.
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Getting around the AMR scope is easy. You really don't know what you are talking about.
 
TheAlchemist said:
And FYI it was only this ONE instructor (SW) who said what you say is "accurate info as to management's intent". Every other instructor agrees 110% with the pilot group.
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Which is proof of exactly nothing. Sorry man.

TheAlchemist said:
I'm glad I could help you get your first flying job man...too bad I won't be able to help you with GoJet. I got a notice of furlough today, but I hear G7 is hiring so why don't you apply? I feel the love...Aloft & GoJet :banghead:

Sorry but I'm not in a good mood today.
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Look, I'm sorry you're getting furloughed, but that's no reason to get personal with me.

FWIW, I'm not some GoJet fanboy or anything; my intent is to stem the spread of mis- (and dis-)information here. It doesn't matter to me who the company is, JCers deserve "fair and balanced", and as it pertains to GoJet, I don't believe we're getting that. Like many of you, I started coming to this site because it was a source of reliable info. People should be able to take to the bank the info they get here, and with just a little research, I've found the "common knowledge" regarding GoJet to be pretty seriously flawed. It's more innuendo and spin than fact.

You're free to disagree, I don't really care. But attacking me personally because you don't like what I'm saying is beyond juvenile.
 
aloft said:
You're free to disagree, I don't really care. But attacking me personally because you don't like what I'm saying is beyond juvenile.
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W-O-W. I had to read that one a couple times...you are DEFINITELY not one to talk about being juvenile.
 
aloft said:
Clearly, neither do you, so we'll just call this one a draw.
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Like I said, getting around the AMR scope is easy. Look at Republic Airways holdings. Guess what they have?

Yep, the holding company is flying for AMR, they have ONE seniority list under different operating certificates that let's them work around the restrictions of their mainline partner scope (by the way all this flying should be done by mainline pilots, but I digress). So it is not hard.

I am not going to comment about my company and get into an argument with someone who I lost a lot of respect for.
 
aloft said:
Which is proof of exactly nothing. Sorry man.



Look, I'm sorry you're getting furloughed, but that's no reason to get personal with me.

FWIW, I'm not some GoJet fanboy or anything; my intent is to stem the spread of mis- (and dis-)information here. It doesn't matter to me who the company is, JCers deserve "fair and balanced", and as it pertains to GoJet, I don't believe we're getting that. Like many of you, I started coming to this site because it was a source of reliable info. People should be able to take to the bank the info they get here, and with just a little research, I've found the "common knowledge" regarding GoJet to be pretty seriously flawed. It's more innuendo and spin than fact.

You're free to disagree, I don't really care. But attacking me personally because you don't like what I'm saying is beyond juvenile.
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How did I attack you? How was I beyond juvenile? Did I offend you when I said you should apply with Gojet? Geez man...sorry.

"Fair and balanced"? Reallyyy??
 
Do your homework, man; TSA tried that. The TSA pilots told 'em to stuff it not once, but five separate times. At some point, you gotta cut your losses with people hell-bent on their own self destruction. Had the TSA pilots not been so hardnosed in their "negotiations", we wouldn't be having this discussion, and Thiago wouldn't be staring his first furlough in the face. But make no mistake, he has only the pilots who were at TSA then to blame.

And if you honestly base your respect for an individual on whether or not they agree with your views, well, that's kinda sad. Personally, I admire people who are true to themselves and stick to their guns in the face of adversity instead of selling themselves out and simply going along with the rest of the flock.
 
aloft said:
Do your homework, man; TSA tried that. The TSA pilots told 'em to stuff it not once, but five separate times. At some point, you gotta cut your losses with people hell-bent on their own self destruction. Had the TSA pilots not been so hardnosed in their "negotiations", we wouldn't be having this discussion, and Thiago wouldn't be staring his first furlough in the face. But make no mistake, he has only the pilots who were at TSA then to blame.
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Okay, I gotta step in here. You're saying they should a taken the bad deal and lower pay rates they were offered? Wow. Sorry, man, but you've fallen a LOOOONG way from the aloft that was around a while back. Simply put, management said "Screw you guys, we're gonna do it our way anyway." They decided that instead of having two certs with one seniority list, they'd get the best of both worlds. Create the second cert for the scope and waive the shiny new jets in front of people for low ball pay rates. Not surprisingly, it worked. Instead of working with the pilots, they stabbed them in the back. Ask yourself this: would the TSA pilots be getting furloughed if they got around the AA scope the way others, like Republic/Chautauqua/Shuttle America have? I think it's dead wrong for one seniority list to be furloughing while another is hiring at the SAME COMPANY.

If Pinnacle said "We'll give you more flying, but you're gonna fly bigger airplanes for less/same money you're flying the 50 seaters for" tomorrow, I'd tell them the same thing the TSA pilots told their management: stuff it. In fact, we did. Guess who the arbitrator sided with?
 
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