Army National Guard Pilot Slots?
- Thread starter scramjet
- Start date
Lefty
Well-Known Member
Real big guy.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Maybe your specific unit, but most units are short. When I was in the process of transferring from the National Guard to the Reserves I had a chat with St. Louis. Even though I was going to a garrison support unit (talk about non-deployable), I was told that as an aviator the Reserves would call me back to active duty within 6 months for another deployment.
Fixed wing units are very short. Sherpas were flying non-stop when I was over there; units were getting one year in the box, one year at home.
I am going to deviate slightly from the topic, but I do not want to start a new thread.
I have been told that if I become an Officer in the Army, after three years of flight, they put you on a desk job. I have heard this from a few individuals, but I refuse to believe it, so I would like to know from those whom are officers in the ARMY and are present in this forum. They also told me the best route is to be a Warrant officer. I want to make it to O6+ (Probably serve 25+ years, if allowed).
I am not sure which direction to take. I want to BE an OFFICER of the military and I want to FLY for the military. That is all I know. I know I can make it if I get a flying spot.
I have been told that if I become an Officer in the Army, after three years of flight, they put you on a desk job. I have heard this from a few individuals, but I refuse to believe it, so I would like to know from those whom are officers in the ARMY and are present in this forum. They also told me the best route is to be a Warrant officer. I want to make it to O6+ (Probably serve 25+ years, if allowed).
I am not sure which direction to take. I want to BE an OFFICER of the military and I want to FLY for the military. That is all I know. I know I can make it if I get a flying spot.
That's not really accurate - you have a "desk job" from day one.
Here's how it works - most Army pilots are Warrant Officers. Besides some additional duties now and then, they primarily serve as pilots. Eventually they'll track a specialty such as instructor pilot, maintenance test pilot, safety, or tactical operations.
Commissioned Officers in the Aviation Branch lead aviations units. They are also rated pilots and fly as well.
The first assignment a WO does is a line pilot. The first assignment a commissioned officer does is (usually) as a platoon leader, leading many WOs and enlisted soldiers while managing a number of helicopters.
In my experience, a WO and an O get pretty equal flight time as long as the O stays in a flight company. At some point in their career, an O assumes a staff position at the battalion level or higher. Usually, they will not be off flight status - they will be just designated as a lower readiness level meaning per the regs he doesn't have to fly that much.
A "typical" Officer career progression might look like:
Year Job
0-1 Training
1-3 Platoon Leader
4-5 Staff Position
5-6 Company Command
7-20 Various command or staff positions, flying an average of 50 or so hours a year (maybe).
The officer is the Army's leader/manager. They are responsible for large numbers of troops and equipment. At the O-5/O-6 level they are the equivalent of Senior VPs and CEOs of corporations.
As an Officer, you have to accept you are the leader first, pilot second. The job is very rewarding as long as you accept that simple fact.
Not necessarily true, but not necessarily false either.
I'll lay out the normal Army commissioned officer career progression, then my Army career, then that of a couple of friends of mine. It's not always the same. And keep in mind that this is for active duty.
"Normal":
Flight school, 12-18 months
Platoon leader, 12-24 months
Company XO, III/V Platoon leader, Avn LNO, or battalion staff (still in a flying unit, but not flying as much), 12-24 months
Captains Career Course, 7 months
Battalion or brigade staff (reduced flying jobs), 12-24 months
Company Command (could be a flight company, but might not be), 12-24 months
Brigade staff, recruiting, ROTC instructor, reserve liaison, 12-24 months.
Command & General Staff College, 11 months
That takes you through about 11 years of service and promotion to Major.
My Career:
Gold Bar Recruiter, 4 months
Flight school, 16 months
Apache Platoon Leader, 24 months
Battalion S1 (personnel), 15 months
Captains course/CAS3, 7 months
Battalion S4 (logistics), 18 months
After that I left active duty. I've spent the last 3 years in the inactive reserves, and recently joined up with a fixed wing reserve unit. The reserves are a whole different animal.
A buddy of mine(times are approximate):
Flight school, 16 months
Apache platoon leader, 12 months
III/V platoon leader (reduced flying), 12 months
Captains course, 7 months
Assistant Operations officer, 8 months
Apache Company commander, 16 months
Special ops aviation platoon leader, 16 months
Special ops battalion operations officer, 12 months
Here's the bottom line: if you want to be a pilot with little to no responsibility, then become a warrant officer. I'm not saying that warrants don't have responsibilities, but they can generally accomplish those responsibilities while remaining in flying jobs for the majority of their careers.
If you want to be a leader who flies, go commissioned. You won't fly your whole career. There will be several times that you might not see a cockpit for several years. A Major here in the FW course with me hasn't flown an Army aircraft in 10 years. He was also a prior warrant officer, maintenance test pilot.
As a platoon leader, I was responsible for over $100 million worth of helicopters and ground equipment. I was 23 years old. I was responsible for knowing the maintenance status of all of my equipment. I was responsible for ensuring that my soldiers received accurate and adequate training. I was responsible for making sure my instructor pilots conducted proper training. It was a pretty daunting task, and now that I look back on that experience, I realize how much I didn't know.
Anyway, the choice is yours. If you decide you want to become a commissioned officer, realize that there is no guarantee that you'll even get branched aviation - you might end up military intelligence, signal, or even infantry.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but if you want more info, send me a PM.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
As I'm sure Ian J and schoolio can attest to, I rather be a Warrant Officer than put up with them.
On a side note I just turned down CW3. Two visits to Iraq was enough for this guy.
As I'm sure Ian J and schoolio can attest to, I rather be a Warrant Officer than put up with them.
That's pretty funny!
I hear ya, man. It's rough out there these days. Are you getting out soon then?
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
The soonest I can start clearing is in August. While no official orders have been drawn yet its going to be close with being stop lossed. If that's the case I will take W-3.
I'm actually looking forward to working in a cubical.
I'm actually looking forward to working in a cubical.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Are you considering being in the Service full time? I'm not sure if the Naval Reserves works the same way as National Guard. While I have never seen anything official I'm under the impression you have to be in the Navy full time before you can be in the Naval Reserves as an Aviator.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Hint: They're the guys with the boats.
Why is the Army different?
Each service is authorized, by congress, a certain number of commissioned officers. The other services include pilot slots in their numbers.
The Army, however, does not. They can't. The Army needs commissioned officers to lead the other branches as well, and can't afford to have that many more commissioned guys added to the rolls. There can only be so many Majors, Lieutenant Colonels, and Colonels without taking away from the needs of the other Army branches.
If you want to talk about the financial implications, read on.
For example, the Apache community has just over 700 airframes Army-wide. Figure two pilots per airframe, and you're at 1400 pilots. Of those, figure that 1/3 are commissioned already, so you're left with roughly just under 1000 warrant officers. This doesn't include those who are currently in non-flying jobs (they're out there). Just to throw a number out, let's say it's about 1100 Apache warrant officers. Now do the same for each airframe (don't forget FW). By my rough guess, the Army would need to increase the commissioned officer authorization by somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 slots.
Take those 5000 slots, multiply by an average salary of $50K/yr (very low estimate considering time in service, medical benefits, etc.) and you've just increased the Army's budget requirements by $250 million/yr in salary alone. The Army needs that money for tanks, trucks, and guns.
I don't think my numbers are accurate - I think they're on the low side.
Lots of other smaller reasons too, but this is how it was explained to me.
bravodelta79
New Member
In talking with a current Naval Reserve aviator, he said that you need to have been AD first to fly reserves for the Navy.
(This post is worth what you paid for it.)
Whom also fly.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Yeah, and the USAF also owns some boats, too.
I wouldn't suggest to someone who was interested in becoming a mariner that they join the USAF to investigate their opportunities there...a better idea would be to join the service whose primary job it is to operate on boats.