Skywest/union

It seems like Skywest mgt only wants 2 things: CAL flying and the planes. The pref hiring and E145 OpSpec make me think their plan is for XJT to die a slow death and shift everything to the Skywest ticket.

With the help of TH and the YX inner circle of cookie eaters, this is kind of what happened to the late/great Skyway. Ans the pilot group was powerless to stop it. One change is that Skywest will have airframes to fill. They offered pref interviews to several Skyway pilots, but then in the final days, postponed all classes and put people in a pool. I think that was a consequence of SLC flying. But the moral of the story is to never bet on these things.

"You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
 
American Eagle didn't used to be an airline. American Eagle was what was commonly known as the operations of 4 wholly-owned [by AMR corporation] carriers by the names of Simmons Airlines, Wings West, Flagship Airlines, and Executive Airlines. In 1998 they became a "single carrier", and that's when "American Eagle" actually became an airline. My first ID from "Eagle" actually says Simmons Airlines, and my first few years of paychecks were written from a Simmons account.

These 4 airlines had separate certificates, separate senority lists, and separate airplanes. I, as a Simmons F/A, could not work on a Flagship airplane with a Flagship crew, even if it was a Saab and I was Saab qualified. It was another airline's airplane. Flagship at one time was furloughing, and they were told they could apply to Simmons. Of course they'd start at the bottom of Simmons' senority list if they did that.....
 
deadstick said:
It seems like Skywest mgt only wants 2 things: CAL flying and the planes. The pref hiring and E145 OpSpec make me think their plan is for XJT to die a slow death and shift everything to the Skywest ticket.
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Very possible. Fact of the matter that RAH has had a lot of success with as many carriers they have seems to have made SKW want to acquire another carrier. CAL/Airways.... It appears it is CAL however.

It will be interesting to see how things work out. Xjet might be the start of the ice berg though. Fact of the matter if UAL/Airways were to go through many rumors out there the two wholly owns are gone (and who wants to buy them DASH/CRj200/700's). So it could be a long ride ahead.
 
MQAAord said:
American Eagle didn't used to be an airline. American Eagle was what was commonly known as the operations of 4 wholly-owned [by AMR corporation] carriers by the names of Simmons Airlines, Wings West, Flagship Airlines, and Executive Airlines. In 1998 they became a "single carrier", and that's when "American Eagle" actually became an airline. My first ID from "Eagle" actually says Simmons Airlines, and my first few years of paychecks were written from a Simmons account.

These 4 airlines had separate certificates, separate senority lists, and separate airplanes. I, as a Simmons F/A, could not work on a Flagship airplane with a Flagship crew, even if it was a Saab and I was Saab qualified. It was another airline's airplane. Flagship at one time was furloughing, and they were told they could apply to Simmons. Of course they'd start at the bottom of Simmons' senority list if the did that.....
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Thanks MQ.
 
Just a note... How Republic operates it's three certificates is NOT how Skywest would operate it's three certificates if it were to go ahead and buy Xjet.

On that note, has ASA filed a single carrier petition yet? With the latest precedent of separate ops being set by GoJet, it may be sort of difficult in this current environment
 
Velocipede said:
Here's what you XJT guys might just be missing.

The SKW ALPA drive failed by just a small percentage. If SKW succeeds in taking you over, the first order of business on your part is a representation election. Given the numbers you bring to the table, getting ALPA on the property is a sure thing.

Then they're going to HAVE to merge the lists unless they intend to operated XJT as a seperate entity.
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Skywest has notified ExpresssJet holdings through a letter field with the SEC that ExpressJet's scope clause would have to be done away with in order for the deal to go through. Scope, as you know, is everything, and the destruction our scope would allow for the free transfer of aircraft from one certificate to the next, from a union shop to a non union shop, and would not include a transfer of pilots.

This would require an amendment to the contract, which WOULD require pilot ratification for the deal to go through if it is indeed a "no go" item on the acquisition.

So the pilots do, in fact have something they can do about this and they should, in fact be angry.

Get out the proverbial switchblades and molotov cocktails boys, we're in for a fight!

Further guys, I've gotta say, what most folks on here are saying isn't even close to being close to reality. If you're not looking at the blastmails from the union and talking with the LEC/MEC reps at ExpressJet, you're only seeing a fraction of what's going on. Most of what's being thrown around here is conjecture, and the real info won't be made public by the folks that fly for ExpressJet. Suffice it to say, the ExpressJet pilot group is probably ready to burn the company to the ground in place of handing it over to Jerry under his terms and conditions.
 
BobDDuck said:
On that note, has ASA filed a single carrier petition yet? With the latest precedent of separate ops being set by GoJet, it may be sort of difficult in this current environment
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Doug mentioned this too - what exactly does this mean?
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I have no dog in this fight at all, but lets just learn from history (for all the SKYW peeps) who seem to think that their company is impervious to an industry wide shake up, and want to call XJT a "bad company".
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:confused: Where do you see this? Seems like all but maybe one SKW guy here has a level head and sympathizes with XJT.
 
my vote is NO thats for sure.

There are a lot of angry people here right now, I'm one of them. This is another example of another pilot group doing things cheaper and throwing this "profession" in the toilet. SKW, welcome to the ranks of CHQ, Colgan, MESA and many others. Bravo!
 
moose said:
my vote is NO thats for sure.

There are a lot of angry people here right now, I'm one of them. This is another example of another pilot group doing things cheaper and throwing this "profession" in the toilet. SKW, welcome to the ranks of CHQ, Colgan, MESA and many others. Bravo!
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Uh oh... did you mention Republic? You are going to have a few of them join in and try to beat ya now... :)
 
Well, suffice to say that the last seven or eight years have been disastrous.

We can either work to improve it, or point fingers. Personally, I'd rather fix it than spend the next umpty-ump years of my career bitter, complaining and upset.

That's a recipe for a heart attack.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Well, suffice to say that the last seven or eight years have been disastrous.

We can either work to improve it, or point fingers. Personally, I'd rather fix it than spend the next umpty-ump years of my career bitter, complaining and upset.

That's a recipe for a heart attack.
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Very true... plus there are too many other things I can have a heart attack over, I do not need my career to be an additional one. I love my chocolate and soda entirely too much!
 
moose said:
my vote is NO thats for sure.

There are a lot of angry people here right now, I'm one of them. This is another example of another pilot group doing things cheaper and throwing this "profession" in the toilet. SKW, welcome to the ranks of CHQ, Colgan, MESA and many others. Bravo!
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:whatever:
 
MusketeerMan said:
Beat him? No...he's just uninformed about our company. That's all. I work for RAH and he obviously does not and everybody is entitled to their opinions.
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Well I would not say uninformed. Probably has a justification for it. Mesa/Colgan/SKW/RAH in a senstence is interesting though.
 
bike21 said:
:confused: Where do you see this? Seems like all but maybe one SKW guy here has a level head and sympathizes with XJT.
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My statement was said in general, but if aimmed at anyone SKYW pilot or not, it was at anyone who was either thinking or calling XJT a "bad" company.

I'd not call XJT a bad company. They're a good company, and have a good, smart mngmt team, however...they have had some very unfortunate situations happen upon them as of late. That started their company down it's current path. But, bad company they're not!

Namely, the first gun negotiation to the head by CO. "Lower your cost or we're taking 69 of your planes."

The management team came up with a good idea of branded, that unfortunately hasn't worked too well, namely because of the high cost of oil. And now the hostile take over attempt/whipsaw by SKYW, aided by CO.

Under these same circumstances or maybe different ones RAH, or SKYW could be in a similar situation. Lets all remember how CMR used to be everyones preferred choice years ago, and now they can barely get people to show up for class. Same could be said for Mesa, I seriously thought they were done with a stock below $1, and losing the DL flying. But they're still with us, and fighting tooth and nail to stay in the game. They may infact rebound and come out of this current down turn stronger, as a company. Samething could be also said about XJT, if they weren't currently in a knife fight negotiation in a phone booth with both CO and SKYW.

My point wasn't to attack any SKYW pilots just to educate anyone thinking or calling XJT a bad company. Who has a short memory and can't remember back to 04-06 and how they then were then the "new hotness." But also to further remind everyone of the truly cyclical nature of the industry and how todays winner, could truly be tomorrows loser.
 
moose said:
my vote is NO thats for sure.

There are a lot of angry people here right now, I'm one of them. This is another example of another pilot group doing things cheaper and throwing this "profession" in the toilet. SKW, welcome to the ranks of CHQ, Colgan, MESA and many others. Bravo!
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I seriously beg to differ. When did SKYW come to their pilot group and say lets vote, to take over XJT for their CAL flying?

Like DT said earlier, were all just pawns in much bigger game. ASA pilots had no say in getting CMR's 700's, likewise SKYW pilots had no say in getting 900's originally meant for ASA. CHQ pilots had no say in getting XJT's flying either. No mngmt negotiated the flying, and the mainline overlords decided who got those 700's.

Lastly, I'll remind you that you're a sub-contractor. As long as you're a sub-contractor, they'll always be threat or chance of somebody "stealing" your flying and doing it for less.

To quote DT, get higher up the food chain and all this is less of a worry.

But to blame SKYW pilots is both erroneous, and dangerous.

Ask yourself, what would you do if circumstances were reveresed, and your managment low balled say RAH for their AAA flying?

Many would consider your group low balling the industry and further causing the circle of the drain.

So, becareful of the things you say, I understand that emotion and sentiments are strong. But, words are still words, and they mean things!
 
You guys are seeing a lot strange little things from folks that fly in the CoEx bases pop up here, and you've gotta understand the background behind it.

A lot of folks that are at ExpressJet were not hired by ExpressJet, they were hired by Continental, to fly for Continental Express and flow up to Continental mainline. I flew with one captain who described his interview experience for CoEx and interviewer asked him how it felt to do his last airline interview ever, obviously meaning he was hired and would be at Continental within a few years.

Shortly after that, Continental Express was spun off and turned into ExpressJet. Continental said, "But it's ok, we'll still have the flow through."

Then that disapeared.

Then Continental said, "Oh we'll still have pref. hiring for you guys!"

Then that disapeared.

Then Continental said, "Oh, well, we're taking 69 of our airplanes."

And a lot of folks stood up and said, "WHAT THE ####!"

Now we're in our situation today where Continental looks like it's continuing it's process of dismantling ExpressJet. Chataquatron took a lot of the crap for losing the 69 airplanes, because a lot of folks were simply angry at watching a company they had fought hard to make the best be taken apart, piece by piece.

Then it was Colgan.

Now it's Skywest.

You've gotta understand, there is a lot of bad blood between Continental and some of the guys on the CoEx side of ExpressJet. They've been there 10 years now and couldn't leave if they wanted to. They probably hate Continental more than Stalin and the destruction of the quality of Continental's product has floored a lot of folks.

Bethune built himself a great airline, with some happy people and respected the folks that worked under him. Larry "The Forehead" Kellner, on the other hand, is a bean counter, and as far as I can see has destroyed a once proud airline, and what is now ExpressJet USED to be part of that.

So it's a little deeper than simply making Chataquatron the scape goat, which they certainly are made to be at ExpressJet, but it's no different than the time I saw a widget pilot give the finger to a Southwest jet (under the instrument panel, of course, while taxiing around), or when Airways guys bag on Republic pilots (even though it's their own fault that Republic is flying EMB-175's for them) or how a TSA pilot would most likely jump a GoJets pilot in a back alley.
 
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