Boeing 717-Airtran

troopernflight

troopernflight

Well-Known Member
I flew with Airtran rountrip Charlotte to Dallas and had the opportunity to ride in the Boeing 717. Strange, I had never heard of this aircraft before I had my tickets. I seems to resemble the DC9, maybe a little bigger (I might be wrong). Anyway, my question is if anyone in here flys this aircraft. It seemed that every landing was extra "firm". I don't know if that is just how this plane lands or if the conditions just happened to dictate planting it on the runway. Other than that, it seemed to be a smooth flying machine. BTW, the experience with Airtran was a good one, and I hope the airline can hang in there with the recent turmoil.
 
troopernflight said:
I flew with Airtran rountrip Charlotte to Dallas and had the opportunity to ride in the Boeing 717. Strange, I had never heard of this aircraft before I had my tickets. I seems to resemble the DC9, maybe a little bigger (I might be wrong). Anyway, my question is if anyone in here flys this aircraft. It seemed that every landing was extra "firm". I don't know if that is just how this plane lands or if the conditions just happened to dictate planting it on the runway. Other than that, it seemed to be a smooth flying machine. BTW, the experience with Airtran was a good one, and I hope the airline can hang in there with the recent turmoil.
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B-717 was simply a MD-95 pre Boeing merger!
 
I used to fly it when I was at AT. Basically, it is part of the DC-9, MD-80, 82, 83, 88, and 90 family, but with Rolls Royce engines. The avionics are the same as what is in the MD-11. And yes, it likes to land rather firm. Not to say smooth landings are not impossible but, they are more difficult. Part of the problem lies with AT's policy to leave the auto-throttles on through landing. The planes hand-flies much better if the throttles are disengaged.
 
coa787 said:
Who's gonna know, right?
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That is a bad attitude to have in the aviation world...

Anyway, I have flown the 717 between MCI and SEA on YX a couple times and they seem like a fun plane to fun on. My only complaint is that the air conditioning system is pretty loud after engine start and taxi out, but that just might be Midwest policy.
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
I used to fly it when I was at AT. Basically, it is part of the DC-9, MD-80, 82, 83, 88, and 90 family, but with Rolls Royce engines. The avionics are the same as what is in the MD-11. And yes, it likes to land rather firm. Not to say smooth landings are not impossible but, they are more difficult. Part of the problem lies with AT's policy to leave the auto-throttles on through landing. The planes hand-flies much better if the throttles are disengaged.
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Ok, that does make sense because I did notice that the autothrottles were engaged on both landings (it was pretty obvious because of the way the engines sounded). Do they still hand fly the approach with the A/T armed, or does the AP have to be engaged when using them? What do the pilots do, disengage the A/T just before touchdown?
 
troopernflight said:
Ok, that does make sense because I did notice that the autothrottles were engaged on both landings (it was pretty obvious because of the way the engines sounded). Do they still hand fly the approach with the A/T armed, or does the AP have to be engaged when using them? What do the pilots do, disengage the A/T just before touchdown?
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It would be pretty difficult to determine if the autothottles are engaged just by the sound of the engines.
 
Beautiful Aircraft, one of my favorite actually. The sound of the engines make me feel in heaven. Its a world wonder to my ears. lol

Its funny because I'm going to be flying on one in 3 hours from MKE-ATL on FL.
 
troopernflight said:
I flew with Airtran rountrip Charlotte to Dallas and had the opportunity to ride in the Boeing 717. Strange, I had never heard of this aircraft before I had my tickets. I seems to resemble the DC9, maybe a little bigger (I might be wrong).
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It's basically the same airframe as a DC-9-30. In other words, a mid-size DC-9. Many of the systems are still exactly the same as the -9, including the old-fashioned cable-and-pulley flight controls. I love it. :) The cockpit is a complete re-do with the MD-11 cockpit, as Caucasian pointed out. Extremely automated and makes life very easy.

It seemed that every landing was extra "firm". I don't know if that is just how this plane lands or if the conditions just happened to dictate planting it on the runway.
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The airplane is a tough one to land smoothly on a consistent basis. You get the occasional greaser after you get used to it, but you still plow one on sometimes. Some of our Captains have been flying DC-9 variants for 30 years and still slam the occasional landing. It's just not very forgiving on landings. Other than that, it's about the smoothest flying airplane in the sky.

BTW, the experience with Airtran was a good one, and I hope the airline can hang in there with the recent turmoil.
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Thanks. Hope you come back. :)

Capt. Caucasian said:
Part of the problem lies with AT's policy to leave the auto-throttles on through landing. The planes hand-flies much better if the throttles are disengaged.
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I hardly ever land with the ATs engaged. They come off usually around 10,000 ft. They're more of a pain than they're worth in the terminal area, and you still have low-speed protection even if they're off.

charlie1017 said:
I guess they teach the procedure to the pilots at indoc, so they have to follow the company guidelines...
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There's nothing in the book to require it. Some Captains don't like them to be turned off, but that's not an official policy in any manual.

EDUC8-or said:
It would be pretty difficult to determine if the autothottles are engaged just by the sound of the engines.
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Not on this plane. The things move around constantly if there's even a hint of wind, so you'll hear them move from idle to 70% and back again if they're engaged. That's why they can screw up landings so much. You'll be at 50 ft, about to flare, and the ATs will surge up to 70%, then go back to idle at the 30 ft mark. Completely screws up the landing and you'll float half way down the runway if you don't plop it on.
 
PCL_128 said:
Not on this plane. The things move around constantly if there's even a hint of wind, so you'll hear them move from idle to 70% and back again if they're engaged. That's why they can screw up landings so much. You'll be at 50 ft, about to flare, and the ATs will surge up to 70%, then go back to idle at the 30 ft mark. Completely screws up the landing and you'll float half way down the runway if you don't plop it on.
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That's exactly what it felt like, it was like the engines would be at idle and then surge. I knew it was not likely that the pilots would handle the throttles like that. And it was gusty on both landings.
 
troopernflight said:
That's exactly what it felt like, it was like the engines would be at idle and then surge. I knew it was not likely that the pilots would handle the throttles like that. And it was gusty on both landings.
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You'd be surprised, that's exactly how you have to fly the EMB-145 sometimes. You can really end up tromboning the thing on approach if it's gusty.
 
jtrain609 said:
You'd be surprised, that's exactly how you have to fly the EMB-145 sometimes. You can really end up tromboning the thing on approach if it's gusty.
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I think you underestimate what he's talking about. The ATs don'ts just pull back to 40%, they come all the way back to dead idle. I certainly hope jungle-jet pilots aren't doing that very often. Very risky on approach in strong winds. Always keep the engines spooled at least a little bit, otherwise the fecal matter can hit the fan in short order.
 
PCL_128 said:
I think you underestimate what he's talking about. The ATs don'ts just pull back to 40%, they come all the way back to dead idle. I certainly hope jungle-jet pilots aren't doing that very often. Very risky on approach in strong winds. Always keep the engines spooled at least a little bit, otherwise the fecal matter can hit the fan in short order.
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There is one point on final where you have to bring the throttles back to idle almost every time on the E145. That is on the GS in between flaps 22 and 45. And yes, the 717's autothrottles are jerkyer (is that word?) than what you have to do on the 145. On the 75/76 you pretty much plant the throttles in one place and let it ride. Speed brakes are used a whole lot more though.
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
There is one point on final where you have to bring the throttles back to idle almost every time on the E145. That is on the GS in between flaps 22 and 45.
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Well, that makes sense. I'll bring the 717 throttles back to idle when configuring also, but once stable and configured by 1000 ft, they ain't going below about 45% N1. The ATs will pull back to idle at 100 ft if you hit a wind gust. :eek:
 
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