Props rule

[kellwolf]

Union -- a number of persons, states, etc., joined or associated together for some common purpose

Like it or not, we're all in this together. Colgan getting a union helps the rest of us by getting them on-board the "raise the rates" train. I'll break it down so others can understand: Colgan gets no union, keeps getting hammered by management with low rates and still gets starry eyed newbies off the street. They get more Q400s in EWR....then CLE.....then IAH. XJT sees furloughs b/c CAL decides that Colgan is cheaper than they are.

The parallel b/w PCL and Colgan is pretty simple. Same with Lynx and Colgan since they fly the same equipment. Believe it or not, the failures and triumphs at one regional affects the rest of us, whether we're at a "good" regional or not. When it comes time for contract negotiations, if those lower tier airlines haven't been able to raise any bars, it's pretty tough to get better at the other places.

 

[Ian_J]

That's the difference. XJT is a GOOD airline, Colgan is a cesspool. Look, I feel bad for the 49% but the MAJORITY of your company wants nothing to do with bettering the industry, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right, 51%ers?

Hey... I don't see your name in your signature...

 

[SmitteyB]

And that would be a bad thing why? Look, I know you tried to make it better, but your pilot group demonstrated that they have no desire to raise the bar in fear of losing the highly desired "quick upgrade". There would be nothing sweeter than see that majority be thrown back on the street.

Chris what exactly to you hope to acheive by making these comments?

It sure is easy to sit back and barrade a carrier like Colgan who is struggling for legal representation. Especially when you did NOTHING to better the profession. You're EXACTLY like Merit. Fall into a union job and immediately it's a "You dont have a union, I do, I'm better" mentality. Get off your high horse.

<removed> It's the people like Steve McNight over there who have labored for you're nice contract and cushy days off. Those are the people who have the right to say anything <removed>. How many organized marches have you been to? How much time have you volunteered for the benefit of the INDUSTRY?

But please continue to enjoy your growth at the expense of the pilot groups that actually were able to make a difference.

Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...Considering you are a major airline flying jets SAT-SAN for $23/hour isn't exactly what I would call bettering the industry. I do believe SWA does it for MUCH, MUCH more. I do believe you are undercutting a union contract there, so your argument doesn't hold water.

<removed>

For the record, XJT is a great airline with great pilots.

SAAB NATION 2008!

 

[Chris_Ford]

Chris what exactly to you hope to acheive by making these comments?

Maybe put a little perspective for those who are proud of undercutting others. Seggy's original post amounted to nothing more than "Ha-HA! I am 1337z0rz for being Colgan's [expletive deleted], my company is going to grow while you guys are out on the street!"

It sure is easy to sit back and barrade a carrier like Colgan who is struggling for legal representation. Especially when you did NOTHING to better the profession. You're EXACTLY like Merit. Fall into a union job and immediately it's a "You dont have a union, I do, I'm better" mentality. Get off your high horse.

When have I said that XJT is better because it has a union? XJT is better and they just happen to have the union. The union is just one way of showing that the pilot group is looking to better the situation. Colgan has not demonstrated any desire to raise the bar. None, nada, nil

<removed>

It's the people like Steve McNight over there who have labored for you're nice contract and cushy days off. Those are the people who have the right to say anything <removed>. How many organized marches have you been to? How much time have you volunteered for the benefit of the INDUSTRY?

You're a real class act with the personal attacks. Nice representation of your pilot group. You're a typical Colganite. As for my volunteering within the union, perhaps you shouldn't speak unless you're knowledgeable about the situation...

Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...Considering you are a major airline flying jets SAT-SAN for $23/hour isn't exactly what I would call bettering the industry. I do believe SWA does it for MUCH, MUCH more. I do believe you are undercutting a union contract there, so your argument doesn't hold water.

Except 1) XJT doesn't fly SAT-SAN (and in fact does not fly any routes that SWA does) 2) They're hemorrhaging money anyway, so it won't be around long anyway. 3) They're operating airplanes one third of the size (coincidentally for about 1/3rd the rate, or even better)

<removed>

Stay classy, Colgan!

 

[Snuggle]

If you're ever in ORF (I see a Colgan Q all the time down here) shoot me a PM, I live about 20 mins from the airport.

I actually flew a beech into ORF. That must have been your Flight Bag in the crew room. It was wrapped in duct tape. The captain I was with had a good laugh when he saw it.


On another note, I've learned a lot from flying with Seggy, he's a good guy who likes to explain and teach those around him. He has no problem passing on what he's learned from his experiences to others. I suggest if someone wants him to explain himself, they should arrange to meet up with him and talk face to face. Of course this doesn't apply to someone who just wants to talk trash on the internet.

 

[skidz]

Maybe put a little perspective for those who are proud of undercutting others. Seggy's original post amounted to nothing more than "Ha-HA! I am 1337z0rz for being Colgan's [expletive deleted], my company is going to grow while you guys are out on the street!"

He said it would open up new opportunities and he's probably right. It seems to me that you're taking it as a personal attack on the shinny jet community. These shinny jet vs. prop childish arguments are getting old btw If you like aviation you want it to thrive whether it be props or jets and whether it's unionized or not. I know I'm sort of an outsider to all this, but I think Colgan is probably going to do better than some people here think. Anyway, it's just my .02

 

[ready2fly]

BANG!....That was my foot!!












Somebody will figure it out.

 

[Toonces]

He said it would open up new opportunities and he's probably right. It seems to me that you're taking it as a personal attack on the shinny jet community. These shinny jet vs. prop childish arguments are getting old btw If you like aviation you want it to thrive whether it be props or jets and whether it's unionized or not. I know I'm sort of an outsider to all this, but I think Colgan is probably going to do better than some people here think. Anyway, it's just my .02

Wow. It looks like you totally missed the point CF is trying to make. It isn't about props vs. jets. I think it has more to do with potentially losing your job because another company low balled CAL. I myself would not be as angry about losing flying to a company that was better. When you lose flying to a company that screws their pilots it hurts that much more.

Colgan
1. Requires a "training contract" (should send up red flags right there)
2. Non union
3. Third year captain pay in the Q 400 with 70+ seats $56

Expressjet
1. No training contract.
2. Alpa
3. Third year skipper pay E 145 with 50 seats $65.45

I bet if Horizon took the flying instead of Colgan you wouldn't hear the same outrage.
The race to the bottom continues.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Toonces gets a cookie!!!

And for those of you who think I'm out for Seggy personally, I ain't. I'd love to grab a beer or fifty with him and I'm sure we'd have a hell of a time. I know he's "one of the good guys"...

 

[WalterSobchak]

Too bad you're making a full $15/hour less than others flying the same equipment (Lynx, the Colgan of the west, doesn't count either) but it'll probably "open up a ton of opportunities for you"!

Huzzah!

Dude, why? Maybe he likes the domiciles?
Once our snap backs our done in 2010 we have the second highest pay rates second only to Horizon should we get into a peter measuring contest? I work here because of the domicile and the company itself.

Hopefully they can vote ALPA and get a contract and the issues with 9E resolved. I think the original topics was how props rule by fuel effienceny and to prove Seggy's point how is the branded flying at XE doing?

 

[inside0ut]

Colgan
1. Requires a "training contract" (should send up red flags right there)

How do you figure that throws up red flags? RAH has a 2 year training contract, and is far from a crap company....

 

[skidz]

Wow. It looks like you totally missed the point CF is trying to make. It isn't about props vs. jets. I think it has more to do with potentially losing your job because another company low balled CAL. I myself would not be as angry about losing flying to a company that was better. When you lose flying to a company that screws their pilots it hurts that much more.

The original point of the thread is revealed in the first few sentances of the article... "The revival of the propeller-driven planes — which typically consume a quarter to a third less fuel than equivalent jets — marks a significant new trend in the industry."
CF took it as Seggy bashing the jet guys and then he went on how Colgan sucks blah blah blah... and the whole thing is not even about any particular company, it's about props coming back into fashion.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Umm, yeah. This thread is a little out of control. Remember, guys, 49.5% of the Colgan pilots voted for ALPA, and it's a pretty damned good bet that another 5-10% wanted it but didn't vote because they thought it was a sure thing. In other words, a majority of the Colgan pilots aren't scumbags. Save the vitriol for the Skybus and VA pilots. They deserve it far more than the Colan guys do.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Speaking of props, I cant wait to hop on the Ocho this Friday:rawk:

 

[Toonces]

How do you figure that throws up red flags? RAH has a 2 year training contract, and is far from a crap company....

Usually crappy companies require training contracts to keep the slaves on the plantation. Good companies don't have to lock you into a ridiculous contracts. As for RAH... I am not impressed with them. Then again I am not impressed with any regional.

 

[SmitteyB]

Chris, I'm sorry for the personal attacks. It bothers me when you underestimate the true intentions of this pilot group. You personally attack every Colgan pilot by saying they're out for themselves. Believe me, we ARE NOT.

You have no idea. There are GREAT guys over here. But what do you expect guys to do? Uproot families and go to the end of seniority list because the Q pays $15 less/hour? Not going to happen. That is crazy to think they would. Seggy is completely right to the Q400. I for one respect him.

What happens when Colgan gets industry standard 70 seat pay? They will still be the guys who stole your flying. It is what it is.

Needless to say, vote "yes" Colganites.

 

[scramjet]

Do I need the tag?
​

 

[Toonces]

To the guys at Colgan hired before our most recent hiring boom.. I can't blame you for going to Colgan. To everybody else that started there in the last 2 years. Why?

Why with all the airlines that are hiring did you choose to go to such a bottom feeding company , then after being around a while claim it's too late to go some place better. Places like Colgan only keep their doors open because people keep going there and accepting crap wages. If you work there, you can't expect people to believe you didn't know it was one of the bottom tier regionals before you signed that training contract.

Mesa has people leaving in droves. Mesa only has 2 options. Improve pay and work rules or die. It would appear Mesa is going with option B. Now if only Colganites can follow the lead of Mesa pilots and leave and let Colgan die. Why should Colgan pay more if you guys keep showing up for work every day?

 

[SmitteyB]

I started at Colgan 8 months ago.

I chose Colgan for the same reason you chose your current company Toonces.

QOL and equipment. I didn't need to fly a jet like some others here. Colgan was in the middle of an ALPA vote which I didn't think would fail. I thought it would be a great place to help better the industry and have a direct hand in that. We all know what the result was. Colgan was also growing. With a lot of movement and gas continuing to climb, the turbo prop was coming back and it sure seem(s) like a place to have some sense of job security.

My time at Colgan I have had to put up with some crap from scheduling. But I've NEVER been called on a day off, been treated poorly, drafted, extended, activated on reserve nor had an incorrect paycheck. Crew planning is hard to get a hold of, but other than that it's a decent place to work. The crews are amazing and I have no doubt we have the most talented pilot group in the industry. I have seen our pilots do some amazing things with that airplane, things only a jet can dream of.

I agree the Q rates are terrible and I think they'll get better. But keep in mind Colgan is not the only airline who has failed an ALPA vote for the first time. We are all in this together. Give the Colgan guys a chance, it's not going to happen overnight.

Why do people always say: "Don't pick a company based on pay rates alone!" but someone goes to Colgan and people say "How can you go work for the crap wages they pay?". Our Saab rates are $1-3 below Eagle and Mesaba.

 

[WalterSobchak]

To the guys at Colgan hired before our most recent hiring boom.. I can't blame you for going to Colgan. To everybody else that started there in the last 2 years. Why?

Why with all the airlines that are hiring did you choose to go to such a bottom feeding company , then after being around a while claim it's too late to go some place better. Places like Colgan only keep their doors open because people keep going there and accepting crap wages. If you work there, you can't expect people to believe you didn't know it was one of the bottom tier regionals before you signed that training contract.

Mesa has people leaving in droves. Mesa only has 2 options. Improve pay and work rules or die. It would appear Mesa is going with option B. Now if only Colganites can follow the lead of Mesa pilots and leave and let Colgan die. Why should Colgan pay more if you guys keep showing up for work every day?

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/30537-anyone-interviewing-at-colgan-aug-19th.html

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