Log book lies

wheelsup said:
Chief,

Who is "they"? Why are "they" going back to check the data? Really no one cares unless you draw attention to yourself to give "them" a reason to look at your history. Most airplanes are registered under business names anyway structured as leasebacks. "They" would be hard pressed to find out what school you even rented that plane from.

Not saying it hasn't happened, but the chances are pretty small.
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FAA. The chances are probably pretty small of ever getting caught, and I'm sure many have gotten away with logging some P(arker)-51 time. However, if the FAA ever did start looking at your logbook (say you had the misfortune to scrape a wing or something) and figured out that your time isn't all real, you would be lucky to get out of it only losing your licenses and career. Not a chance I'm willing to take.



bap327's answer is best anyway.
 
faceof5 said:
I understand the potential penalties. But I'm curious how you can be caught and how they look for it if they do.
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Here's what happens. The guy who seriously pads the logbook is also the guy who doesn't give a crap about any other rules either. So there's a pretty good chance that he is going to screw up in a way that calls attention to himself - land gear up, bust an altitude - in a way that will get the FAA interested in looking at him and his logbook. Once they look at it - remember, they're already interested - they will look for the strange stuff and start checking it out.
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
FAA.
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Yes! Exactly! The FAA doesn't look at your logbooks in an interview (unless you are interviewing at the FAA!).

:)

I think CFI's and pilots in general invent stories to scare people away from doing the wrong thing, instead of saying "we don't make up logbook time because we just don't". Of course, as humans, we often need to have a consequence associated with doing something wrong in order to stop us from actually doing it...
 
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 61—CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart A—General
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§ 61.59 Falsification, reproduction, or alteration of applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, or records.

(a) No person may make or cause to be made:
(1) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a certificate, rating, authorization, or duplicate thereof, issued under this part;
(2) Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part;
(3) Any reproduction for fraudulent purpose of any certificate, rating, or authorization, under this part; or
(4) Any alteration of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part.
(b) The commission of an act prohibited under paragraph (a) of this section is a basis for suspending or revoking any airman certificate, rating, or authorization held by that person.



http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.37&idno=14
 
I don't really believe anyoe whether the FAA or an airline would have reason to investigate your time. I especially can't imagine an airline wanting to check into it and waste their time even if you do poorly in an interview or sim. They would probably just not offer you a position and move on.

I know of a guy that drives for AE and he penicled flew a lot of single engine VFR to build his total time. But his certificate and rating times were all legit and so was his multi time. But now that I think about it he could have just as easily added more multi time.
 
faceof5 said:
I don't really believe anyoe whether the FAA or an airline would have reason to investigate your time. I especially can't imagine an airline wanting to check into it and waste their time even if you do poorly in an interview or sim. They would probably just not offer you a position and move on.
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Or they could forward your info to the FAA. There's no statute of limitations on this one, so imagine if you had a minor accident after you got your ATP, and the FAA investigates and found that you had false hours in your log pre-CPL...you're done. Not going to be in another cockpit ever again. Well maybe- if you go to another country and start from SCRATCH i.e. ZERO time.
 
LOL yeah and they *could* call your mom and tell her what a crappy pilot you are. Seriously, lay off the scare tactics. We don't log time in our logbooks because it's not the professional thing to do. It has nothing to do with a regional airline telling the FAA they think a guy who interviewed flew so poorly that he pencil whipped time. Get real buddy! At least say something people will believe it you're trying to scare them.
 
I agree with you wheelsup. I don't see why an airline would take the time to report a pilot candidate to the FAA based on poor sim flying.

The only scenario I could imagine happening is if a ppl logged a bunch of bic time before getting his instrument and commercial and then flying poorly during his inst or comm training with high time could reaise suspicion and then maybe cause an ####### instructor or jerk examiner to pry into your flight time.
 
I don't know if you are referring back to what I said about flying poorly. If so, I didn't mean that flying poorly during an interview would ever get you caught with the FAA. But at the ridicously low time airlines like piedmont, if you show up claiming to have 250 hours and fly at the level of a student pilot, it may will prolly raise the BS flag and get you sent home without a job.
 
Of course, if you don't pass the sim you don't get a job, no matter if you have 250 hours, 100 of which was pencil whipped or 25,000 hours of true flight time.
 
Chief Captain said:
There's ALWAYS a paper trail. You say you did 1.5 hrs from KOPF to KMCO on Mar 4 2008 in N12345 with 1hr IMC. They go and check the data, and find that all of florida was VMC on that day, and no ATC centers have a record of your tail number, and the school doesn't have a record of you renting the plane. Your career ends before it starts. DO NOT DO IT!
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This is exactly what the FAA did when they investigated a group of CFIs at a flight school suspected of falsifying their logbook time. They got the school's rental records and compared them with the claimed entries. All the CFIs had all of their certs revoked.
 
I have never heard that Cert's get revoked until this thread. It looks like regs state that you are in violation for making up "required" entries for currency and such. So can't you argue that your currency was actually flown, but the other times made up?
 
faceof5 said:
I understand the potential penalties. But I'm curious how you can be caught and how they look for it if they do.
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This is a small community, more than one person has been caught by using an N number that happened to belong to the interviewer or his "friend." The first time the pilot is ask to demonstrate his "skills" his true colors will most likely show through. Also through questioning the systems of the plane the applicant "appears" to have a lot of time in. Most FAR135 instructors and check airmen can tell on the first flight whether a pilot has 1200 hours or says he has 1200 hours.
 
There are FAA inspectors behind every bush at every airfield and log books will be torn apart by a crack team of inspectors that will track down every plane ever flown. Get it?
 
madmax said:
I have never heard that Cert's get revoked until this thread. It looks like regs state that you are in violation for making up "required" entries for currency and such. So can't you argue that your currency was actually flown, but the other times made up?
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The reg is 61.59. The standard penalty for a violation according to the FAA's Compliance and Enforcement Program guidelines is revocation of all pilot certificates and ratings.

A revocation order usually includes an end date, after which, the pilot may start to reapply, beginning with taking the private checkride.

No, you can't argue that your currency was fine but the other times were made up. Well, actually you can =argue= anything, but there are NTSB decisions where the pilot tried exactly that - =very= unsuccessfully.
 
Yeah guys, he's just wondering. He's not actually considering pencil-whipping some time. He's just wants to know if people can get caught doing it out of curiosity... :sarcasm: Don't do it buddy.
 
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