Students Now Leaving Atp After Multi Commercial?

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Godzgreatgift

New Member
I don't know too much about this so I hope someone who has done their training with ATP maybe has experienced it. But, one of my friends who is currently training with ATP told me that most of the students are dropping out after they get their multi engine commercial license and taking a refund of whatever they can get back because ATP is trying to cut corners for the CFI training. I heard that only 5 hours of MEI and CFI is covered with the advertised price and the ground school. Does anyone know about this issue that can shed more light on this? Is 5 hours enough to do CFI and MEI training? Do you have pay more per hour if you don't finish within the 5 hours?
 
Godzgreatgift said:
Is 5 hours enough to do CFI and MEI training?
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Considering at the point you're ready for your CMEL, you have over 100 hrs in the seminole...its completely doable. Finish cross-countries --> 5 hours of CMEL prep --> 5 hours of MEI prep and you're all set on the flying the airplane part. (This is why you want to do XCs from the right seat)

I treated my commercial checkride as my CFI ride. Flew from the right seat, simultaneously explained and performed all maneuvers. I found the MEI to be entirely attainable and I had a great couple of instructors to get me through it (thank god I did CFI school in JAX). Listen, you're at ATP to work hard...study hard and make it. Those who dont generally are the ones who drop out of the CFI portion. If you're really committed to being the best pilot possible, please, finish your MEI.
 
Thanks for the reply kfour, thats what I was saying. I know I am dedicated and I want to get everything done but I hate hearing negative feedback from people. I've taken a lot of time considering which school to go with either Ari-Ben or ATP. ATP i went to visit in the JAX facility and loved it and I have heard great things about ATP and very few negative stuff. I haven't placed my deposit yet but will soon within a week or two. I am looking to start on April 14th at the JAX facility. Do you know anything about that location? Is a good location? The reason I picked JAX because it would be easier to do everything there since its their headquaters. I wouldnt have to move from place to place to do CFI training or the RJ course since I am there already for the 90-Day ACPP.
 
kfour said it perfectly.

A couple friends of mine dropped the CFI course because they got jobs with airlines without needing anything more than the Comm. ME and some ME time.
 
That happened when I was there too. A couple guys went to Piedmont and someone went to Mesa, and another to a regional that required a Multi Comm and the Jet Course.
 
So what is going with the industry now?!

So i heard guys now who have MEI or so get hired? and some say go through the CFI.

I can't imagine how not yet inexperienced a person can be to be working and having less hours for a airline. My opinion is to get your CFI and dump your knowledge on the student of what you learn and would able to teach to them of what you learned.

don't know what to say...is the industry that desperate for low time pilots or is it just me thinking they wanted to fly the jets considering age and all those factors.

So if its true that airlines are hiring just only there MEI, then i don't know..
 
Its not that ATP is cutting corners. Thats the way it always has been, 5 hours towards MEI. Tons before you have passed just fine and tons afterwards will. I would say that 90% of people who drop out before CFI school are the ones who are scared of CFI school. You hear stories about how tough it is, and it is, but anyone can get through it. The other 10% get jobs and have stuff lined up so they dont need the CFI portion.

-Rob
 
but which regional hires at that low of a time? I research and all or some of them have mins of 400 or more TT.
 
Godzgreatgift said:
I don't know too much about this so I hope someone who has done their training with ATP maybe has experienced it. But, one of my friends who is currently training with ATP told me that most of the students are dropping out after they get their multi engine commercial license and taking a refund of whatever they can get back because ATP is trying to cut corners for the CFI training. I heard that only 5 hours of MEI and CFI is covered with the advertised price and the ground school. Does anyone know about this issue that can shed more light on this? Is 5 hours enough to do CFI and MEI training? Do you have pay more per hour if you don't finish within the 5 hours?
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I dont know about a lot... Kfour would know best to be honest..... However this is my one major complaint with those who dump the money into ATP. If you arent even going to get your CFI's you are WASTING your money! That is plain and simple! period! You are getting 3k or something small back for not doing the CFI course or you can get 10 hours more of Multi (which at that point doesnt matter). Anyways big advice for those going to ATP bust your rear end and make sure you are ready for CFI school. there is no excuse to not be ready in addition you are WASTING your time and money if you dont complete the whole course..... Too many other ways to get exactly your IFR-CMEL a hell of a lot cheaper then damn near 60k!
 
meyers9163 said:
If you arent even going to get your CFI's you are WASTING your money! That is plain and simple! period! You are getting 3k or something small back for not doing the CFI course or you can get 10 hours more of Multi (which at that point doesnt matter). Anyways big advice for those going to ATP bust your rear end and make sure you are ready for CFI school. there is no excuse to not be ready in addition you are WASTING your time and money if you dont complete the whole course..... Too many other ways to get exactly your IFR-CMEL a hell of a lot cheaper then damn near 60k!
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I'm no expert but I would have to agree with meyers9163 completely. I feel the hole point of going to ATP is is to get as many ratings as possible in the shortest amount of time. Let's not forget the REGIONAL JET STANDARDS CERTIFICATION which is included in the price of the 90 day program.

Here is a quote from ATP's website. "Airlines recognize ATP’s Regional Jet Training as certification by ATP that you are a professional aviator, capable of passing their strenuous airline training. Ask any pilot who has completed ATP’s regional jet training, and you will hear that it reduced stress and improved performance in airline ground school. The bottom line is that Regional Jet Standards Certification ensures that even with relatively low flight time, you are best prepared to enter the airline pilot job market."

I want to be as marketable as possible when I begin applying to the regional airlines. If don't get picked up right away at least I will be able to fall back on a flight instructor position keeping my flying skills sharp while gaining more flight hours which will only make getting hired with a regional even easier.
 
Alloy' you're gonna get flogged if you mention that CRJ course on this site! Personally, I look forward to going myself too...

As for not taking the cfi portion of the 90 day course, the friggin' thing takes two weeks and a day! From what I've read most airlines take longer than that to set you up with an interview, and weeks to months after that to get to their training program. Imagine what a tool you'd feel like after not getting your cfi and washing out of indoc? I'll feel green enough walking into my first interview with a wet MEII and a few hours of instruction given. I'll be damned if I come with in two weeks of having those ratings and walk away from them.

"Some times nothin's a cool hand."-Paul Newman
 
For those that are going to an airline with a wet commercial ticket and nothing else...have fun upgrading/getting your ATP with ATP mins....cause you can't. A little thing called PIC time.
 
stillageek said:
For those that are going to an airline with a wet commercial ticket and nothing else...have fun upgrading/getting your ATP with ATP mins....cause you can't. A little thing called PIC time.
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There is a loop hole. Airlines hire captains, not FOs. If they couldnt upgrade you, they wouldn't hire you.

-Rob
 
Yeah I know there is a loop hole hence me stating with ATP mins. Those who got hired with a bare mins commercial likely went to an airline that has high attrition (for whatever reason) and thus quick upgrades. If you don't meet the mins when it's your turn you are passed over until you do....that's all I was stating.
 
This has been beat to death on this website, but whatever.
I dont understand what the rush is to get hired by a second rate regional airline. I love flying period. I still fly "little" airplanes for fun, i had a hell of a time instructing. It was a blast. Sure it got old at times, but what job doesnt? Rushing to the first regional that will hire you isnt (IMO) the best thing to do. Building experience in general aviation, even if its only for a couple months, is going to make you a much better pilot. Its only gonna make airline training that much easier when youve got some actual IFR experience under your belt... especially if its instrument instruction.

I guess what im trying to say to guys like Gumps and Alloyicon is that the CFI is the most important portion of the Career pilot program. Not the Jet course. Dont treat instructing as a back up, treat it as a stepping stone to the airlines. Who knows? By the time you finish training, this hiring circus might have slowed down, and youll be "stuck" as an instructor for a while (OMG!!11!!). Make sure thats part of your game plan here, dont count on getting hired right out of training. Whats been happening in the regional airlines for the past year is not normal and could end at any time...

ok, im off my soapbox now.
 
Here’s the deal. You can ‘opt out’ of CFI school and receive your choice of either; $2,000 or an additional 15-hours of XC in the Seminole. I’m starting CFI school on March 3rd and my flight partner decided not to do CFI school. This may be the worst decision you can make. You will never, I repeat, NEVER get these three ratings for just $2,000 ever again.
Put your head down and study for a week, pass the check rides and off you go. I believe in giving yourself as many ‘outs’ as possible in life. Your CFI’s are hours that will be pay you back for a lifetime! Many of the guys that do not do CFI school are worried that it is hard. Airline training is hard…if you fail there you’re fired, if you fail at CFI school, simply do a recheck and move on.
Oh yea…If you get assigned Walt for your initial MEI check ride REFUSE and ask for another examiner.
Fill you your pilot's license with as many ratings as you can!!
 
ftyflyboy said:
Here’s the deal. You can ‘opt out’ of CFI school and receive your choice of either; $2,000 or an additional 15-hours of XC in the Seminole. I’m starting CFI school on March 3rd and my flight partner decided not to do CFI school. This may be the worst decision you can make. You will never, I repeat, NEVER get these three ratings for just $2,000 ever again.
Put your head down and study for a week, pass the check rides and off you go. I believe in giving yourself as many ‘outs’ as possible in life. Your CFI’s are hours that will be pay you back for a lifetime! Many of the guys that do not do CFI school are worried that it is hard. Airline training is hard…if you fail there you’re fired, if you fail at CFI school, simply do a recheck and move on.
Oh yea…If you get assigned Walt for your initial MEI check ride REFUSE and ask for another examiner.
Fill you your pilot's license with as many ratings as you can!!
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Going to CFI school has officially as of today netted me an extra 163 hours of PIC time.

-Rob
 
stillageek said:
Yeah I know there is a loop hole hence me stating with ATP mins. Those who got hired with a bare mins commercial likely went to an airline that has high attrition (for whatever reason) and thus quick upgrades. If you don't meet the mins when it's your turn you are passed over until you do....that's all I was stating.
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And when you do upgrade you upgrade to a seniority spot ahead of everyone who was hired after you regardless of when they upgraded, possibly skipping CA reserve entirely.

The debate of 250 hour FOs aside it's not necessarily a bad thing to delay upgrade, especially if you're forced to anyways.
 
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