Update on Ari Ben/Fly Aviator

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tilley_205

Well-Known Member
After months and months of forum reading, long phone calls, and constantly changing views on how I am going to complete my pilot training....I think I am close. I know everyone new to the forum asks the same question. But I have been a reader of this forum for 2 months now, and I have been reading as far back in the forums as I can for information on accelerated programs.

I have made my decision, I am going to go to an accelerated flight school. I know all schools have mx issues, and flights will be cancelled due to wx. I understand that. What I am asking is if anyone has any up to date information on Ari Ben/Fly Aviator flight school. From everything I have read, in late 2007 the school was having many issues with mx and lack of instructors. I plan on visiting the school in June, but I am probing all you current or recently former students of Aviator for any opinions on the schools operation as of lately. Also, do you log all your multi time pic, or is a bunch of it safety pilot?

How are the living conditions? How long did it take you to complete the Professional Pilot Program w/Instructor Ratings? And once you were done did you go on to instruct with them?

If you have the time, any response would be much, much appreciated!
 
I am interested in this school as well and have been thinking about going their for some time. However, I have heard things about the school that have caused me to second guess whether to go or not.

I plan to do the 100 hour commercial, but only 50 of those hours are PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. The other 50 are safety pilot PIC as the pilot responsible for the safety and integrity of the flight. Legally, you should only log around 85%-90% of those 50 hours as PIC safety pilot because you are not safety pilot when the other pilot does not have the foggles on during taxing, run-up, takeoffs, and landings. I guesstimate this adds to .15-.1 of an hour. I don't think their students are taking this into account. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Does anyone know if you can use the "50", I mean 42.5 (50-(50*.15)) safety pilot hours for a higher certificate or rating and if so, how can these hours be applied? I believe one can use the safety pilot hours to meet the 250 total time and 100 hr. PIC requirements for the Commercial Certificate, but not for the 50 X-Country hour requirement or the 20 hours of training listed in 61.127(b)(2). Right?

Also, does anyone know which airlines are taking PIC safety pilot multi-time and how one should legally log safety pilot time? Is it best to put it in a separate logbook?

I am still interested in this school, but I want to know as much as I can before I show up and find out its a scam. Like tilley_205, I appreciate any information on this matter. Thanks!
 
tilley_205 said:
After months and months of forum reading, long phone calls, and constantly changing views on how I am going to complete my pilot training....I think I am close. I know everyone new to the forum asks the same question. But I have been a reader of this forum for 2 months now, and I have been reading as far back in the forums as I can for information on accelerated programs.

I have made my decision, I am going to go to an accelerated flight school. I know all schools have mx issues, and flights will be cancelled due to wx. I understand that. What I am asking is if anyone has any up to date information on Ari Ben/Fly Aviator flight school. From everything I have read, in late 2007 the school was having many issues with mx and lack of instructors. I plan on visiting the school in June, but I am probing all you current or recently former students of Aviator for any opinions on the schools operation as of lately. Also, do you log all your multi time pic, or is a bunch of it safety pilot?

How are the living conditions? How long did it take you to complete the Professional Pilot Program w/Instructor Ratings? And once you were done did you go on to instruct with them?

If you have the time, any response would be much, much appreciated!
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Short of actually going to the interested locations yourself, as you've stated already, you can get a pretty good perspective from this forum of opinions expressed by students past and present. Many of my high school/college wannabe aviators ask those same questions you've asked. I've "sourced" this forum for opinions on many academies and FBOs to gain another person's perspective on conditions whereever they are interested in performing their training.

Understand my caveat. . . short of actually going. One can never truly know from another's point of view unless you're actually that one person. It pays to visit if possible. It pays to call even more frequently to have questions asked and answered satisfactorily.

Case in point is two of my friends visited ATP here in Houston. Both went together; both came back with two diverse perspectives about the school. Yes, Mx issues, CFI experience, scheduling concerns, frequency of flying, etc, etc. were discussed, yet both came back disagreeing significantly about how they perceived all these key elements to training and how it affected each one personally.

You should do so as well; yes, listen to opinions on this forum, for it provides insightful, beneficial information. It offers a good prep for more detailed questions once you visit.
 
Gosh, you're not supposed to use critical thinking and logic, man! This is the internets!
 
high5flyer said:
I am still interested in this school, but I want to know as much as I can before I show up and find out its a scam. Like tilley_205, I appreciate any information on this matter. Thanks!
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Ari Ben has been around longer than FF has been out of grade school I don't think their a scam! They are qualified for Federal Stafford loans and other federal programs and the DOE doesn't just give that out willy-nilly. They are also accredited by the Accrediting Commission for career schools and Colleges of Technology and they don't just give that away ether.

Check http://www.accsct.org/DirectorySear...t=ari ben&Locations=FL&Programs=&Credentials=

What does this mean, it means they check up on the school every now and then to make sure its doing what it says its doing. Most schools aren't willing to go through the rectal exam that accreditation brings.:D


The safety pilot thing is used by all the big schools and your likely to start a email war if you ask. But that being said, ask it on the CFI section of the forum and you'll get ten or fifteen good arguments. Then you can make up your own mind.
 
BillErvin said:
Ari Ben has been around longer than FF has been out of grade school I don't think their a scam! They are qualified for Federal Stafford loans and other federal programs and the DOE doesn't just give that out willy-nilly. They are also accredited by the Accrediting Commission for career schools and Colleges of Technology and they don't just give that away ether.

Check http://www.accsct.org/DirectorySearchResults.aspx?SearchRequest=ari%20ben&Locations=FL&Programs=&Credentials=

What does this mean, it means they check up on the school every now and then to make sure its doing what it says its doing. Most schools aren't willing to go through the rectal exam that accreditation brings.:D



The safety pilot thing is used by all the big schools and your likely to start a email war if you ask. But that being said, ask it on the CFI section of the forum and you'll get ten or fifteen good arguments. Then you can make up your own mind.
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Excellent point! Let's now search for Silver State Helicopter. . . .
 
MFT1Air said:
Excellent point! Let's now search for Silver State Helicopter. . . .
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They used a private student loan company not federally insured that I'm aware of. That said, any company could go the way of Silver State. Can you say "due diligence"

Hey, have you looked at some of the web sites dedicated to that crook. He owns a couple of nice houses here in Texas. I wonder where he got the money:confused:
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate your seasoned responses. I will plan on visit whatever school I choose before I send them a check. BillErvin you mentioned that they are qualified to receive Stafford Loans..? How does that work being they are a career school? I guess I havent found many flight schools that are qualified to accept stafford loans.

Like I said before I appreciate all the input, but is there anyone on the forums that is currently or very recently finished a course at Aviator? It seems to me they have expanded their fleet, and when I have called down they have told me they would like to wait until the end of march to take any more students. I think this shows great integrity of the company being they dont want to get overwhelmed with students, when they easily just could have said come on down, and my rating would take an extra month due to the extensive amount of students.

Also, has anyone, or does anyone know anyone who has gone on to instruct with Aviator after completing any courses?

And one last thing, Aviator specific, so say I would enroll in the Career Pilot Program, 200 hours multi, I should expect to have roughly 100 PIC and 100 safety pilot multi time...correct?

Thanks again for the help! What a wonderful resource jetcareers is!
 
BillErvin said:
Ari Ben has been around longer than FF has been out of grade school I don't think their a scam! .
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Almost all the big flight schools are a scam

BillErvin said:
They are qualified for Federal Stafford loans and other federal programs and the DOE doesn't just give that out willy-nilly. They are also accredited by the Accrediting Commission for career schools and Colleges of Technology and they don't just give that away ether. .
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tilley_205 said:
BillErvin you mentioned that they are qualified to receive Stafford Loans..? How does that work being they are a career school? I guess I havent found many flight schools that are qualified to accept stafford loans.
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I think it is only for $3,000 and is need based. There are a lot of flight school that are qualified for Federal Stafford loans.



Go down and check out the school.
 
Gonzo said:
Almost all the big flight schools are a scam
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Some more than others:D There's no doubt that you can get the same logged time for less and maybe better experience at an FBO, but if you want it "now" the big schools are the place:(



Gonzo said:
I think it is only for $3,000 and is need based. There are a lot of flight school that are qualified for Federal Stafford loans.
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Gonzo is partly correct about about needs based, you can get both need based and non-needs based and the amount varies. Most schools don't do stafford loans because its a paperwork nightmare for them and the school has to be approved by the Dept of Education.

Most use private student loan companies (Sally Mae, or SLM which has private and Govt backed loans, suntrust, Wahcovia etc etc) some are federally backed most aren't, again because of the paperwork hassles

Good Luck, and let everybody know what you opinions are when you check out the schools.

Bill
 
Excuse my skeptical nature, but as an individual from Minnesota, have you not considered places throughout the United States? Why have you considered Ari-Ben? Off the top of my head, I can think of many other on this website that are available without any of the negativity you see about any of the "academies" online. From California to Florida and all states in between, what might have sold you in your selection to a specific school?

Just asking. . .
 
I'm at the Aviator right now

The housing is nice, Pines of Vero. A bit far from the school but a shuttle leaves every hour to the school. The school has to many students right now but things are getting better. Flights every day now, used to be worse. Alot of indians are leaving as soon as they are done with their course. They never stay to instruct since they can get an airline jobs so easy back home.

I've heard rumours that the school is not accepting any more students now because of the above mentioned problem. Good for me, bad for new people who wanna come here.

PM me if you have any questions.
 
Hey erik, so are you saying with the things going with Ari-Ben at the moment, the program can be accomplished within 90 days? You get to fly every day with no maintenance issues with the airplanes? When are they going to open up class dates for new students any idea on that?
 
Godzgreatgift said:
Hey erik, so are you saying with the things going with Ari-Ben at the moment, the program can be accomplished within 90 days? You get to fly every day with no maintenance issues with the airplanes? When are they going to open up class dates for new students any idea on that?
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It is hard to get done in 90 days at any flight school that only has one location.
To get it done in 90 days you have to be ready from day one (IR,CPL,FOI,CFI,CFII written's done)
 
No I don't think so. Not 90 days.

The weather can allways stop you from flying. The aircraft needs their every 100h service and in between that they can break and need to be fixed.

The only written timeframe I have is in my contract where it says the school wants me to finnish the course in 6 months at the most.
 
Finishing the course in 90 days is impossible right now. You also have to understand that their web-site doesn't say anything about the course being completable in 90 days, only that 90 days of housing is included in the Pro Course price.

In the history of the school only a handful of students have done the course in 90 days. Flying time is still intermittent; it undulates. One week, you may fly every day; another week, you might not fly at all. It depends on several factors.

Firstly, the planes go for their hundred hour checks every few days. And, of course, they are almost invariably squawked, at some point in time, between hundred hour checks. Weather does play a role in canceling flights, but it is relatively infrequent. Another item that will cause delay in finishing your course is availability of instructors. Most, if not all, instructors have more than four students. So, being able to fly only 8 hours a day (legally), an instructor with six students would be only able to fly four of them in a day. Lastly, if you're up for a stage check, you're waiting. There are so many stage checks waiting to happen that a massive delay is retarding the movement of students through the course. The CP is extremely busy, and backed up; to the point that even the FAA Examiners are having to do stage checks.

If your plane is consistently on line, you are prepared for every flight, and your instructor has space to fly you every day, you will fly every day. Again, weather is not too much of an issue, right now, except for pilots in certain phases of their training.

The current group of Indian students is rather large; although a large number of them will be finishing up and going back home soon. There are more coming, but only about thirty (last time I heard) over February and March. In addition to Indians, there have been a few new students arriving this month; and a few more that I know of for next month. I believe that the current waiting list extents into May.

I came to Aviator for the multi-time, at so reasonable a cost. Plain and simple, the multi-time will be of more benefit to me in the future than the other courses offered out there. The price still can't be beat, and, to me, it is worth the aggravation and delay.

Incidentally, there are three new-to-Aviator Duchesses. Although none of them are currently online, it is assumable that the three new planes will help increase the flow of students.
 
When I last contacted Angela, she had told me May is the earliest that I would be able to start. Also, she never said anything to me about 90 days, just 4-6 months.
 
Thanks for the updates on this school guys. Very informative! Another question, I know the Ari Ben website says that instructing there starting salary is $35K. How true is that? Is it $35K starting salary for every instructing even with no instructing experience? How many hours do these instructors work a day?
 
Danzig said:
Firstly, the planes go for their hundred hour checks every few days. And, of course, they are almost invariably squawked, at some point in time, between hundred hour checks. Weather does play a role in canceling flights, but it is relatively infrequent. Another item that will cause delay in finishing your course is availability of instructors. Most, if not all, instructors have more than four students. So, being able to fly only 8 hours a day (legally), an instructor with six students would be only able to fly four of them in a day. Lastly, if you're up for a stage check, you're waiting. There are so many stage checks waiting to happen that a massive delay is retarding the movement of students through the course. The CP is extremely busy, and backed up; to the point that even the FAA Examiners are having to do stage checks.... it is worth the aggravation and delay.
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This is pretty much the theme everywhere. Flight schools are super busy right now (if they aren't, probably a bad sign for them since the slow ones still have bills to pay!). 100 hours, squaked planes, occassional weather, instructor availability due to the shortage of good ones everywhere, and waiting for stage checks and FAA exams...

I know people at other programs and I'm at Falcon in Georgia. All the same stuff no matter where you go pretty much. And you are right. it's not worth being aggravated. This is an introsuction to aviation for us all and, quite frankly, it seems just the way it is in aviation. Nothing will ever go smoothly or exactly as planned. So just make your choices and enjoy the journey!

And you are right. You do seem to still have a decent program down there and a good price for the experience still to this day.

I encourage any new student to narrow down to a couple schools and visit them all (4-5 schools ideally to visit in person). Then make your decision after the site visit. That's what I did and it worked nicely. I chose Falcon Aviaiton for my own reasons, but still have a high respect for all the places I visited from Aviator to White Air and Skymates and others not on here before making the best choice for me. Oh, and you say it's too expensive to do that. Trust me. It's $2,000 of trips well spent. And if you can't spend that much to visit a few schools, you can't afford to go to school yet since that two grand is a drop in the bucket compared to making a school choice so you can pay the training cost of your career decision. And a bad personal decision will cost you 10 times the two grand you spent to visit schools.

Cheers to you all! And happy landings.
 
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